zorg wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:21 am

biscuitdough wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:18 pm Low is really unfinished, to my ear, and Lodger has a phoned-in quality where he returns to the glam-era boogie non-riffs and the dumb dramatic deep voice. Heroes is, to me, the great Bowie album.

Neither Bowie nor Queen were solid album artists. Queen were all over the place thematically, and Bowie just fucking loved filler. All the ambient stuff on Low is just Eno outtakes and incomplete sketches, sometimes with a guitar solo added on. If there's a "they never did anything like..." though, it's Scary Monsters.

This is getting into Bowie vs Queen, and Bowie definitely had the most hideous album artwork, if that works as a deciding factor. Diamond Dogs and the US version of The Man Who Sold The World being the most obvious.

I disagree strongly with almost everything you've written here, so I think I'll just let it stand at that if there was something Bowie had in spades, and Queen was clearly lacking, it was taste, in pretty much all aspects. I totally respect that a lesser band could never get me to listen to something like Fat Bottom Girls, Bicycle or Crazy Little Thing, but they pull it off because they are talented and affable as fuck. But it's all hideous music they are rescuing by sheer power of will. It's like if Bowie never progressed past the Laughing Gnome. If you argue that Bowie's vision exceeded the craft at times, I could concede maybe it had.

biscuitdough wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:48 am I agree they are dumb and tasteless, what I believe is called fun around these parts.

biscuitdough wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:48 am As far as vision exceeding craft, Bowie had one of the best rhythm sections in the world and routinely pulled in brilliant people. I think it's more that he lacked completeness of vision. He would have a cool idea and get cool people to work on it, but he often struggled to put all the pieces together.

penningtron wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:02 am

biscuitdough wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:48 am As far as vision exceeding craft, Bowie had one of the best rhythm sections in the world and routinely pulled in brilliant people. I think it's more that he lacked completeness of vision. He would have a cool idea and get cool people to work on it, but he often struggled to put all the pieces together.

I can agree with this to some extent, but think that's part of the charm. Was he ever gonna be as singular as the VU, Scott Walker, or Kraftwerk? Probably not. But what a thing to strive for, sometimes with spectacular results, and sure as shit no one else was doing those things at the time.

Krev wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:45 am "Ogre Battle" and "Father to Son" are fucking awesome.