Finally started watching the third and last season. Two episodes in, and I’m reminded of what an evocative and wonderfully written show this is. Every bit as good as The Wire.

WF for James Franco, when he can’t dial back the bada-boom, bada-bing shtick.

Very NC, agree 100% re: waffles for Franco.
Penultimate episode broke my heart a little.

Franco and the female lead absolutely sucked.

Definitely not on the same level as The Wire. Entertaining enough, though.

I dug the snapshot of how old NY started to disappear, and how the epidemic unfolded. The latter was particularly heart-breaking to watch.

NC, WF 8.

Edit: whoops, by female lead I mean Franco's girlfriend. Maggie Gyllenhaal is great in it!

I enjoyed The Deuce. Not crap w/a tube of lube.

Franco was scenery-chewing awful, but I found Gyllenhaal to be very likable and most of the other actors were decent to great. Excellent sets and costumes. Evocative show, better than like 95% or more of other tv.

Also treats the idea of both sex work and porn w/nuance, compassion, and intelligence, not giving in to puritanical or right-wing moralizing but also not falling prey to the currently-trendy romanticization of them as some kind of feminist workers' revolt (in practice, at least in America, they seem more like a libertarian's unregulated wet dream).

Agree that it's not close to The Wire's level of depth, acting, or sophistication. But it's still a pretty good show.

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:39 am Agree that it's not close to The Wire's level of depth, acting, or sophistication. But it's still a pretty good show.

See, I’m not sure about this. I think it matches The Wire in these regards.

One of the things I love about The Deuce is that its depiction of change is nuanced. It’s really hard for to totally villainize the property developers, for instance, when what they’re displacing is so squalid and dangerous and under the thumb of the mob. And I love the parallel growth of both a more feminist porn (coming from Candy) and a more degrading porn (coming from the gonzo people out west). Like you wrote, it complicates the narrative.

Also, I’d add that Simon assembled a diverse writing team, and it shows. And that’s one important contributor to the show’s sophistication: the women’s stories are as essential and vibrant as the men’s.

It’s depressing that representing basic, real life counts as sophistication, but that’s where we are.

Did Treme hurt someone's kids or something? Simon's front-to-back sharpest bit of work and not even in the conversation here. I mean, unless it's just a given as a league above.

Wood Goblin wrote: Also, I’d add that Simon assembled a diverse writing team, and it shows. And that’s one important contributor to the show’s sophistication: the women’s stories are as essential and vibrant as the men’s.

It’s depressing that representing basic, real life counts as sophistication, but that’s where we are.

This is all very true. In fact, the stories that stuck w/me the most from this show--regardless of gender--are easily Candy's, Darlene's, Thunder Thighs', and Lori Madison's.

American tv has usually sucked at real life, excluding maybe for a blink during the late '70s. The most telling thing is when you watch the American remake of an otherwise mainstream but serviceable foreign show like The Killing, Broadchurch, or even The Office, but everything from the soundtrack to the plot changes feel totally manipulative.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Did Treme hurt someone's kids or something? Simon's front-to-back sharpest bit of work and not even in the conversation here. I mean, unless it's just a given as a league above.

MrsEaster and I tried to watch it when it was still new. Made it to the second episode but nothing grabbed us. Really didn't give it much of a chance. You're one of several people who has advised me to go back.

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:34 pm MrsEaster and I tried to watch it when it was still new. Made it to the second episode but nothing grabbed us.

I made it a little further but yeah, pretty much that. I asked around at the time and never heard anyone say more than it was just alright.

Need to resume The Deuce, I kind of forgot about it.

I’ve never seen it either, but a good friend of mine swears that Treme is brilliant.