heyo.

so lately i've been thinking about trying to mic my kick drum on each side (before i've only been micing the resonant head)

i was wondering if there is any "rule" about which side to phase reverse?

i know that with snare drums, if you mic the top and bottom head, you typically phase reverse the bottom side to match the side that is being hit. so would you use the same idea with a kick drum (phase reversing the resonant side to match the batter side, which is being "hit")

or is this a typical example of "use your ears" and see which one sounds better?

discuss...

andyk

andteater wrote:or is this a typical example of "use your ears" and see which one sounds better?

discuss...

andyk

Do the above, and play with nudging the mics around. You don't usually have to invert the phase. Monitor them on headphones, and you should be able to hear the phasing...but be sure and check it with your ambient mics as well. Without decent monitors/headphones, you might want to look at it in SMAART, or something similar...

Andy,

If phase reversing is necessary, I would reverse the phase on the batter mic.

The mic in front of the kick is going to have more low end, and I like the fact that the woofer will push air when the kick drum is hit, much as the drum itself does.

Similar logic for snare--the thwack comes off the top of the drum.

You can also look at it this way--if you can only put one mic on a snare or kick, where do you put it? That's the mic you should leave as it is. Phase-reverse the other one if you need to do that.

from using multiple mics on multiple kick drum on multiple instances i have learned something about how the batter side and resont side of the kick drum react. This discovery would not be possible without the graphical waveforms generated by my DAW.

I have noticed constiently that when close mic'ing both ethe batter side (for attack) and the resonant head (for low-end, tone and sustain), that the batter side will have a quick spike, followed by some sustain. The resonant side will not have this initial spike, but the first big peak in the waveform will be the initial thud/resonance of the drum.

At first i looks like the spike of the batter mike's waveform and the initial peak of the resonant head's waveform are the same "event" captured by two different mics. Using a DAW you can line up your tracks for phase compatibilty. When aligning these "events" along the timeline, the sound of the kickdrum suffers. The reason for this is because thay are sperate "events". The spike on the batter side is the attack of the drum, and the peak of the resonant head is the body of sound ofthe drum. After close examination, I noticed that the peak, and all of the remaing cycles of the waveform of the resonant head line up perfectly with the resonant waveforms (the ones following the initial "spike") of the batter side.

What is a little confusing is that the spike is usually a positive spike/peak, followed by the sustain, which is a dip in the waveform, and the initial "peak" of the waveform of the resonant head is in fact a "dip", and will line up perfectly with he initial dip of the sustain on the batter head.

Anyhow, by listening to the sum of the waveforms when properly lined up, the sound of the kick drum really comes through. It's pretty amazing really. It's hard to have these waveforms line up naturally with mic placement because usually your batter side mic is very close to the batter, and naturally your outside mic is further from the drum. The difference in distance between the individual mics and the drum create a time delay, and when summed can hace some low-end cancelation and even cause a loss of clarity in the attack of the drum, but it is usually acceptible. However, in my experience once I actually line up the waveforms the low end and attach of the drum become very focused and clear.

This is hard to explain without visual aids. I hope it makes sense.

Hey Michael,
I've never thought about it this way.
Next time I'm doing something in the digital domain I'll give it a try.

I usually check the phase of the close mics with the ambient mics (or overhead mics depending on what's being used). So once the resonant head mic is in phase with the ambient mics (by flipping the polarity if necessary) then I check the beater head mic with the resonant head mic by switching the polarity on the beater side mic while listening to both kick drum mics. It works well for me. I do prefer, however, to record the beater mic on a different track. With toms I follow the same process but I record both mics to one track.

MTAR wrote:However, in my experience once I actually line up the waveforms the low end and attach of the drum become very focused and clear.

you're quantizing the beater mic with the resonance head?

eliya wrote:

MTAR wrote:However, in my experience once I actually line up the waveforms the low end and attach of the drum become very focused and clear.

you're quantizing the beater mic with the resonance head?

no, there is no quantization involved. i am time/phase aligning the entire wave form.

MTAR wrote:

eliya wrote:

MTAR wrote:However, in my experience once I actually line up the waveforms the low end and attach of the drum become very focused and clear.

you're quantizing the beater mic with the resonance head?

no, there is no quantization involved. i am time/phase aligning the entire wave form.

are you delaying the beater mic or moving the outer kick mic back?

154 wrote:

MTAR wrote:

eliya wrote:

MTAR wrote:However, in my experience once I actually line up the waveforms the low end and attach of the drum become very focused and clear.

you're quantizing the beater mic with the resonance head?

no, there is no quantization involved. i am time/phase aligning the entire wave form.

are you delaying the beater mic or moving the outer kick mic back?

im moving the outside mic back... if there is a reason for that it's subconcious. how's that for science?