Jimbo wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:59 pm...I'm also wondering with the fact that there is a mounting fascist threat in our country, and the entire law enforcement community is entirely on their sides, if it would be wise for the left-leaning folks of this country to be armed for community defense purposes. With one side of the country not wanting guns and sanely thinking there should at least be strong gun control laws, and the other side of the country fucking armed to the teeth and willing to main and kill to get their twisted point of view established as law, and the vast majority of cops are literally on their side and won't lift a finger to help young children, much less adults who disagree with them, maybe this is a good idea.

Abso fucking lootly. When the evangelical rape cops come around, can we defend ourselves armed only with our lofty principles?

Jimbo wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:59 pm ...I'm also wondering with the fact that there is a mounting fascist threat in our country, and the entire law enforcement community is entirely on their sides, if it would be wise for the left-leaning folks of this country to be armed for community defense purposes. With one side of the country not wanting guns and sanely thinking there should at least be strong gun control laws, and the other side of the country fucking armed to the teeth and willing to main and kill to get their twisted point of view established as law, and the vast majority of cops are literally on their side and won't lift a finger to help young children, much less adults who disagree with them, maybe this is a good idea.

Yeah, good luck with that... arm everyone.
When you all shot each other, the First Nations can finally come around to claim their land back.

Chud Fusk wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:07 pm
Abso fucking lootly. When the evangelical rape cops come around, can we defend ourselves armed only with our lofty principles?

I often think of why it’s advised to bring bear spray instead of a firearm when camping or hiking in grizzly country (aside from the welfare of the animals, who have done nothing wrong) - it’s very difficult to shoot accurately under calm conditions, to say nothing of the four seconds of utter panic you have in a life threatening situation. Anything less than a crack shot will only piss it off even more.

I’d argue that the same principle applies here. Unless you really know what you’re doing, good luck.

Yeah.. you're gonna stock up and take shooting lessons because of idiotic, infighting militia beardos..

Police.. ok yeah that's scarier, but honestly if they're coming for you a few handguns isn't going to help much.

My sister owns a gun, a Glock if I'm not mistaken. Around the time of George Floyd's murder she started a full-court press to talk me into becoming a gun owner. She and our great-aunt go out to the range a few times a month. If memory serves it's a black-owned shooting range, one of three in America. She almost got me, but at the end of the day I'd rather get physical and knock someone's lights out as it's much more satisfying.

The fantasy that armed leftists will save the day from armed fascists is just as ridiculous as the fantasy that armed fascists will save the day from anitifa.

That gun is more likely to shoot a bullet into the roof of your own mouth after you’ve had a bad day than it is to take down a MAGA warrior.

Wood Goblin wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:45 am The fantasy that armed leftists will save the day from armed fascists is just as ridiculous as the fantasy that armed fascists will save the day from anitifa.

That gun is more likely to shoot a bullet into the roof of your own mouth after you’ve had a bad day than it is to take down a MAGA warrior.

Yes.

I remember reading somewhere that a really common male fantasy, starting in adolescence, but lingering way after, was beating up a mugger, and that after 9/11, this morphed into taking down a terrorist. From a UK no-dog-in-this-fight perspective, the firearms industry thrives on such heroic protective fantasies, and the reality is far more often harm, and usually self-harm, whether intentional or otherwise.

Dudley wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:01 am

Wood Goblin wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:45 am The fantasy that armed leftists will save the day from armed fascists is just as ridiculous as the fantasy that armed fascists will save the day from anitifa.

That gun is more likely to shoot a bullet into the roof of your own mouth after you’ve had a bad day than it is to take down a MAGA warrior.

Yes.

I remember reading somewhere that a really common male fantasy, starting in adolescence, but lingering way after, was beating up a mugger, and that after 9/11, this morphed into taking down a terrorist. From a UK no-dog-in-this-fight perspective, the firearms industry thrives on such heroic protective fantasies, and the reality is far more often harm, and usually self-harm, whether intentional or otherwise.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the issue with hero stereotypes like this as well as gender roles and toxic masculinity. I fear it might have been misinterpreted as me suggesting gun availability isn't the problem, which, again, I totally did not mean and I totally support firearm control.

I think as a parent to an 8 year old son, I've seen a lot of entertainment where that good-guy-with-a-gun narrative is directed at our boys, and I'm sensitive to it in a way that I wasn't, pre-kid. You bring up an interesting point that the good guy with a gun thing used to be applied to cops-and-robbers, and then it was the "terrorist hunting permits" dudes would put on the back window of their pickups. Now it seems we're entering an era where the good guys have their sights on fellow Americans who are their ideological foes.

Wood Goblin wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:45 am The fantasy that armed leftists will save the day from armed fascists is just as ridiculous as the fantasy that armed fascists will save the day from anitifa.

I don't think anyone is talking about "saving the day." Just surviving. This is a dangerous country on a good day.

Dudley wrote:I remember reading somewhere that a really common male fantasy, starting in adolescence, but lingering way after, was beating up a mugger, and that after 9/11, this morphed into taking down a terrorist. From a UK no-dog-in-this-fight perspective, the firearms industry thrives on such heroic protective fantasies, and the reality is far more often harm, and usually self-harm, whether intentional or otherwise.

Oh absolutely. That doesn't mean that sane rational and conscientious people can't make good use of a firearm in a defensive situation. Such an eventuality doesn't justify the existence of guns, but good luck putting those worms back in the can.

BeyondThePale wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:02 pm

tonyballzee wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:10 am "Why the hell would anyone bring a gun to a ten-year-old's birthday party?" I said because you never know when a man is going to have to defend hisself and his family at the Chuck E. Cheese.

I reminded her I live in Arizona where it's normal to see dudes packing at Circle K or Wal-Mart.

Crap.

I wonder how often any of these people have deployed their toys for self-defense. I'm 40 now, and have lived in so called 'dangerous' cities my whole life, and I have never met anyone who has ever defended themselves with a gun. I am not saying that it is impossible - I don't recall even seeing an instance of 'gun owner saves the day' on the news. It strikes me as this bizarre John Wayne fantasy that these types stroke themselves to.

My other favorite argument is resistance to tyranny. As if a few camo clad AR-15 enthusiasts are somehow gonna stop Uncle Sam from flying a drone over their house. Its lunacy.

Gun enthusiasts' argument #1: "It's in the constitution!"

When they wrote the constitution, do you know what kind of guns they had? Muskets and single-shot rifles and pistols. You get off one shot then you have to stop and reload the damn thing.

As far as resistance to tyranny, this guy kind of nails that argument to the wall around 2:15: