Nate Dort wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:17 am Seems like there's two types of recruiters out there. The veteran company internal recruiters that are generally good at their job, and the fresh out of business school independent agency influencer-types that post about the boondoggle conferences they're constantly attending and how they're getting bottle service in the club.

There's a 3rd type too: the mysterious cold caller with a New Jersey or Texas number that sound like they're in a dungeon, barely audible or intelligible, asking if you read the email they sent 45 seconds prior. I squeeze enough info out of them to then search for the job myself, find the listing, and apply on my own if it's worth a damn (it usually isn't). I don't know who the fuck actually follows through with those recruiters.

*this happens a lot when you activate your green banner on Linkedin

There's essentially 3 types of recruiters, two of which have been described:

1. The veteran that is a true professional in the art of recruiting. These people know what they are recruiting for, how to screen candidates and find the best matches suited for the job. They know a little about the inside game of what you are doing, enough to hold a conversation and have an opinion.

2. The fresh out of school/influencer who doesn't know shit and sees it just as a numbers game.

3. The failed real-estate agent/marketer/bored housewife who doesn't know anything, bottom of the barrel types who don't offer very good jobs to begin with.

I've had recruiters ghost me, definitely in the latter categories. I'm sure they're spamming everyone on LinkedIn, so if you don't jump on it, they're already working with someone else. The first one, though, they don't usually ghost. And if they do, well they're just not interested I guess and don't take it personally.

You can tell a good recruiter from a bad one: a good one will advocate for you through the process and follow up with you, if you've made an impression and there's interest in hiring. They can also have a conversation about the job and the environment around the career. I think you'll almost always find these types as internal recruiters, i.e. potential coworkers. Though, I have worked directly with some very seasoned recruiters who work for a recruiting company both as a candidate and on behalf of an employer, but I find that rare.

This week, I'm doing the final interviews for two jobs. One, I have been interviewing with for almost two months. The other, about two weeks. My gut is telling me I'm probably going to get at least one offer. The interview today is basically a formality to talk to the VP of engineering. I've already gone through the gauntlets of technical and cultural interviews, so I would assume if we're doing this last one is just to make sure everyone's on the same page. The second interview is more of a follow up technical. It was a takehome, and I'll be discussing with an engineering manager my process for building the feature, what improvements I'd make and other technical details. I feel like I did a great job on it, I was reviewing the code today. I missed some really minor things, but it was also under a time limit. I was able to add some edge case handling and do some testing. I had already done another technical, behavioral, and cultural interview, so this is the absolute last interview.

Hopefully I'll get an answer for both one way or the other by the weekend or early next week. I am not looking forward to having to go through the interview process more, and I've already been turning down opportunities to interview at other places because I am just burnt out and feel like if I can't get an offer from one of these two places, I need to spend some time improving my technical skills before getting back out there.

I hate to sound naive, but do other industries have people go through as many rounds of interviews and testing as tech? It's exhausting.

andyman wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:25 am I hate to sound naive, but do other industries have people go through as many rounds of interviews and testing as tech? It's exhausting.

I have a friend in digital media and marketing (tech-ish maybe) and I hear a lot about 5-6 rounds of interviews and projects that sound like doing work for free. I do see very sought after coastal tech companies posting their processes up front which don't seem much better than that, but at least they're honest about it? Thankfully it's not my dream to work at Hooli or whatever.

Today's suspicious recruiter email:

"Hello, [ my name- redacted].
I am a Recruiter in the Human Resources Department at CME Group. We are actively seeking talented leaders to join our team and drive the growth and development of our organization. If you are interested in learning more, please leave your phone number and one of our Vice Presidents will contact you.

We cordially invite"

CME Group seems to be involved in derivatives trading , something I know nothing about. The recruiter's profile has 3 connections and alleges that he attended Harvard. He doesn't even ask for a resume.

LuciousSandwich wrote: Today's suspicious recruiter email:

"Hello, [ my name- redacted].
I am a Recruiter in the Human Resources Department at CME Group. We are actively seeking talented leaders to join our team and drive the growth and development of our organization. If you are interested in learning more, please leave your phone number and one of our Vice Presidents will contact you.

We cordially invite"

CME Group seems to be involved in derivatives trading , something I know nothing about. The recruiter's profile has 3 connections and alleges that he attended Harvard. He doesn't even ask for a resume.

CME Group is a very influential financial exchange in Chicago. Their office is right long the river near Monroe/Canal.

I've never has a recruiter ask me for a phone number for a VP to contact you. And funny enough, I literally just finished required cybersecurity monthly training and this sounds exactly like a scam. Never in my entire life have I ever had a recruiter ask me for my phone number so a VP could call me. It's very unprofessional, especially coming from CME Group. If you even care, I would contact CME and let them know there's a scammer out there.

Wrapped up two final interviews. I'm feeling very confident I would get at least one offer, as I suspected. The one I'm most confident about, the VP of engineering said there's definitely a place for me on one of their teams and they will find the best fit considering mutual needs and asked if I had any other interviews and if they should be speedy on submitting an offer to me. The other one went really well, with a senior hiring manager. It was a conversational/technical interview, going over code I had done in my own time and added some features to it. We had some great back and forth and it was very chill the whole time. I can't imagine not getting an offer, everyone seems to like me and I have proven that I can do the job and beyond. I was even asked if I would be interested in managerial roles at some point.

Anyway, nothing is ever a done deal until you start your first day. I don't care if you sign the offer, it literally means shit until you get on the payroll. I've had two experiences in the past to prove this. One, I was hired by a startup working in the concert ticket industry. I was going to be the first engineer hired. I showed up to work on a Monday to start my first day, and as I walked into the office, I was told the company was sold to Ticketmaster and they bought all the rights to the software, but not the engineers. So, I hadn't even finished setting a foot in the office and I already lost my job, and had no severance because what severance would one get if they only worked somewhere less than 30 seconds? The other time, I had gotten an offer, signed it, and was ready to give my two weeks notice. I literally was about to talk to my manager, when I got an email from the company that said there's a sudden hiring freeze and they would not be able to go forward with the offer and hire me.

So, folks, don't celebrate until you made it through the first day! I would even argue, don't celebrate until you get that first paycheck!

andyman wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:25 am I hate to sound naive, but do other industries have people go through as many rounds of interviews and testing as tech? It's exhausting.

Right? I once literally had a 7 hour interview at a company, only to be told at the end that they weren't interested. I had to take a day off of work, and spend 7 hours in back to back interviews, was invited to have a few drinks with the other employees and had a great time socializing. This was after an initial phone screen, a technical phone screen, and then a take home technical. So much fucking time wasted, it's incredible.

An ideal interview process would be initial phone screen, a technical screen or take home with a follow up interview with relevant code problems, then an offer. If it's for a higher position, maybe an additional interview with a more senior member; or if it's an hire of opportunity, a final discussion with where to be placed. More than that is really disrespecting people's time on both ends. It's a real disadvantage these days to take long in the interview process, because you're losing potential employees to faster processes. I actually just had this conversation with one company that has taken too long in their process and they said they would address it. (Not a red flag per se, as I am being assessed more as an opportunity hire than filling an open position.)

cakes wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:55 am So, folks, don't celebrate until you made it through the first day! I would even argue, don't celebrate until you get that first paycheck!

Yeah, there are a lot of rescinded offer stories going around in the last year, on top of all the other shittiness.

But if you do pull off a seamless job transition, you'd be doing way better than most. (soft) Congrats!