In that particular situation(where you just happened to luck into a trustworthy tech...), I would see what the tech's assessment is.
If it's just a matter of a bum setup?
I'd do my best to just let that it was bugging me go, and suggest they take a little off of the price for my trouble.
If the tech says it's anything more serious than that?
All hell breaks loose.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
622[*]
I wouldn't lose sleep over it, and if you can get money back or more store credit for your trouble, great.
If new, return for store credit is bunk, used I think it's kind of a take your chances kind of thing. But if the truss rod doesn't work, that's a lemon, and that's their fault for buying it, they shouldn't pass on their bad call to you. If you trust the tech, then you're surely alright. I share an office with one of, if not the best in the business, and rarely is anything catastrophic - but then Gibsons never cease to amaze me, yet here I am with more than I need.GuyLaCroix wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 5:24 pmSomething I've never seen before: bought that LP, confirmed that it was strung with 10s, took it home, restrung, and jammed. Was going okay till I was banging along to the stereo when I noticed chords on the wound strings were flat. Like almost a half step by the 7th fret on.GuyLaCroix wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:06 pm Music Go Round just dropped the LP price another fifty. I think they made the decision for me.
I fooled with the bridge but ran out of space to send it and further towards the nut. I estimate needing about 2-3 more turns but no turns were left.
I then noticed that the guitar had next to no relief.
Took it back to MGR this morning, the guy insists that it's just a couple uneven frets. I insist it's the lack of relief. 3 dudes around this guitar scratching their heads. Nothing they did (including not fuckin with the truss rod once) remedied the situation. I stood around for about 90 mins watching these guys.
Dude asked me if I wanted it sent to their tech, and I said at this point I'd rather return it and let them deal with it. He told me I could return it for store credit only. I calmly asked if that policy extended to lemons, and he got a lil huffy. The only thing that diffused the situation was the discovery that their tech is also my tech. He recently picked up the gig and I swear by this dude. They skated by on his integrity alone.
So I figure it will get sorted, texted the tech and he assured me I am in good hands, which I already know.
But! I feel like I should maybe go back and argue for my money, just because a guitar off the rack shouldn't be in that poor of working order.
Am I outta line here? Did they do enough of the right thing or is my mounting paranoia sure sign of catastrophic failure?
I wouldn't lose sleep over it, and if you can get money back or more store credit for your trouble, great.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
623They're saying that the neck had no relief, which would be a sign of an active truss rod, imo.TylerDeadPine wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:30 pm But if the truss rod doesn't work, that's a lemon, and that's their fault for buying it, they shouldn't pass on their bad call to you.
Also, to the OP, no relief is often okay in electric guitars. The Stewmac setup guide recommends .001" relief at the 8th fret which is 1) probably invisible without a proper straightedge, and 2) very very close to zero relief. And beside the point if its fretting fine and you're having tuning issues that sounds like intonation to me, not a worry of neck relief (except in extreme relief cases). If the bridge wont intonate, that's a problem, but one that the tech should suss out quickly.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
624I'm trying to remember, I believe adding relief brings the guitar sharp because it lessens the distance. I know that's not the main reason to tweak the truss but it does affect intonation. Most luthiers I've known have gone for a bit of relief. It could even out your troubles. The dude at the shop who thought the tuning problem was an uneven fret seems way off to me.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
625Right this is all true and i'd say if the intonation was on the cusp of being correct then maybe adding a bit of relief would get you there, however that's kind of a backwards plan of action. First step is always to get the neck where you want it in terms of flatness, then adjust bridge height and intonation accordingly to make it playable and intonated.losthighway wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:40 am I'm trying to remember, I believe adding relief brings the guitar sharp because it lessens the distance. I know that's not the main reason to tweak the truss but it does affect intonation.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
626You can have a neck with a broken, or loose truss rod with no relief due to the neck being warped, or a seized truss rod in a state of tension.Dr Tony Balls wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:06 amThey're saying that the neck had no relief, which would be a sign of an active truss rod, imo.TylerDeadPine wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:30 pm But if the truss rod doesn't work, that's a lemon, and that's their fault for buying it, they shouldn't pass on their bad call to you.
Also, to the OP, no relief is often okay in electric guitars. The Stewmac setup guide recommends .001" relief at the 8th fret which is 1) probably invisible without a proper straightedge, and 2) very very close to zero relief. And beside the point if its fretting fine and you're having tuning issues that sounds like intonation to me, not a worry of neck relief (except in extreme relief cases). If the bridge wont intonate, that's a problem, but one that the tech should suss out quickly.
The amount of relief you may want is dependent on the action of the setup, string gauge and how you play. 0.001” as a general rule for electrics is, imo too little - most guitar shops, wouldn’t even have the tools to measure that accurately, even a feeler gauge you’re going to push a string up more than 0.0005”
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
627Larry Cragg is big on ‘no relief’ except for players that hit hard.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
628I wonder what his tolerance for straight would be - lot of wiggle room in opinion in the word 'straight'.llllllllllllllllllll wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:46 pm Larry Cragg is big on ‘no relief’ except for players that hit hard.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
629Is there a Kinsey Scale equivalent for neck relief?TylerDeadPine wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 4:58 pmI wonder what his tolerance for straight would be - lot of wiggle room in opinion in the word 'straight'.llllllllllllllllllll wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:46 pm Larry Cragg is big on ‘no relief’ except for players that hit hard.
Re: Gear: TALK ME OUT OF IT or JUSTIFY MY PURCHASE?
630I’ve owned about 10 Gibsons in my life and about 1/2 of them didn’t have enough backward travel for the low E on the saddle to perfectly intonate, even after flipping the saddle. Can’t remember if any of those had the Nashville bridge, but I suspect they were all ABR-1 with the problem. They really need to move their bridge placement slightly or angle a tiny bit more as I’ve never experienced being anywhere close to the other end.