It was always a pretty big ask to expect fans of John's music to be fans of Yoko's as well, and ramming them together seemed like their way of coping with the imbalance of having him being several orders of magnitude more popular. If half of what Julian says is true, she was capable of some mighty jealous behaviour. But Paul started a band with his wife as well, and why not? They were figuring out how to integrate their music into the next phase of their lives.

Yoko clearly meant a lot to some people. I'm not going to write her off. Anybody who insists on being avant-garde is usually entertaining at least. But her twitter feed is full of new-age platitudes, and i went to a Fluxus exhibition once and none of it really grabbed me in a big way. It was ok.

To draw a stupid equivalence, I imagined if Elton John had married Blixa Bargeld and tried to get all his fans into Einsturzende Neubaten, and they released a joint album called Halber Mensch/Halber Rocket Mensch.

Anthony Flack wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:23 pm To draw a stupid equivalence, I imagined if Elton John had married Blixa Bargeld and tried to get all his fans into Einsturzende Neubaten, and they released a joint album called Halber Mensch/Halber Rocket Mensch.

I'd fuckin buy it

brownreasontolive wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:45 am

tonyballzee wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:50 am John Lennon's solo career is marked with his insistence that his wife's art be taken at the same face value as his, that it had the exact same merit. A lot of people found this difficult to swallow.

Those people are philistines and misogynists. (broad-brush)

I won't go as far as misogyny but there's a really square bias amongst boomers that will never give Yoko a break. I was talking to my mom about the doc, and how quiet and unobtrusive it revealed the woman who supposedly broke up the band to be. She didn't see the same thing apparently and went off about how "weird and awful that woman is".

Anthony Flack wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:23 pm To draw a stupid equivalence, I imagined if Elton John had married Blixa Bargeld and tried to get all his fans into Einsturzende Neubaten, and they released a joint album called Halber Mensch/Halber Rocket Mensch.

Yes please, I'd like to view this alternate history please.

*Would watch a performance of Blixa literally jackhammering away at a yellow brick road*

losthighway wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:16 pm

brownreasontolive wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:45 am

tonyballzee wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:50 am John Lennon's solo career is marked with his insistence that his wife's art be taken at the same face value as his, that it had the exact same merit. A lot of people found this difficult to swallow.

Those people are philistines and misogynists. (broad-brush)

I won't go as far as misogyny but there's a really square bias amongst boomers that will never give Yoko a break. I was talking to my mom about the doc, and how quiet and unobtrusive it revealed the woman who supposedly broke up the band to be. She didn't see the same thing apparently and went off about how "weird and awful that woman is".

Totally.

I remember one late night party when I was a kid and I was getting into “Kiss Kiss Kiss”. My mom made a point to turn it off and put on “Ride My Seesaw “ to show me what real music sounded like.

I mean, the Moody Blues are great but damn.

Anthony Flack wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:23 pm To draw a stupid equivalence, I imagined if Elton John had married Blixa Bargeld and tried to get all his fans into Einsturzende Neubaten, and they released a joint album called Halber Mensch/Halber Rocket Mensch.

HOF

losthighway wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:16 pm

brownreasontolive wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:45 am

tonyballzee wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:50 am John Lennon's solo career is marked with his insistence that his wife's art be taken at the same face value as his, that it had the exact same merit. A lot of people found this difficult to swallow.

Those people are philistines and misogynists. (broad-brush)

I won't go as far as misogyny but there's a really square bias amongst boomers that will never give Yoko a break. I was talking to my mom about the doc, and how quiet and unobtrusive it revealed the woman who supposedly broke up the band to be. She didn't see the same thing apparently and went off about how "weird and awful that woman is".

At the time, Yoko's appearance within the Beatles camp did unearth some nasty racism and sexism, especially in England.

One thing most of Yoko's critics fail to understand is that she was present at the Beatles' recording sessions because John wanted her there. It was his idea, not hers. Yoko didn't say, "Hey John, I demand to be in the studio with you every minute and further disrupt the failing camaraderie between you and your bandmates." She was there at John's insistence, partly because he didn't want to be separated from her and partly to assert his independence and antagonize the other three (mostly Paul).

People at the time couldn't decide if Yoko haunting the session was weird or not. People now can't decide if it was weird or not. Even the band wasn't sure how to react. Being a passive-aggressive dick move on John's part seems about right, but that would preclude any suggestion that it was all totally normal behaviour. People wouldn't still be saying what's up with that fifty years later if it wasn't all a bit weird.