SPOILERS

Pretty good ending, I thought. I'm not exactly sure how anything Saul eventually confessed to would clear Kim from being sued or prosecuted (although I'm not sure exactly what crimes she committed when fucking with Howard or lying about his death). Maybe the writers wanted to have a Walter White lying to save his family from further legal troubles kinda thing or whatever but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me at this point. I'm not clear on why Saul would take the life sentence after the initial offer of 30 years or the negotiated 7--I'd expect if the judge threw out the plea bargain, there would be some negotiating or going to trial--like I get that his coming clean was supposed to save kim, it's just very, very poorly explained how it would.

I didn't have any issues with the time jumps and quite liked Walter's "Oh, so you've always been like this." or whatever the exact line was. Yeah, it's a very on the nose line for the show from a thematic perspective but I'm fine with using the finale to have a little victory lap for the writers. Yeah, Jimmy/Saul get by by never reflecting on their life.

Trying not to compare the show to the greatest television show of all, The Sopranos, I will post this Andy Kindler bit:
Why would a massage have to finish with a 'happy ending'
I want a massage that ends ON A CLIFFHANGER!
OR how about a massage with a 'tear jerker ending?'
I want a massage with a SOPRANOS STYLE ENDING!

marty wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:51 am SPOILERS

Pretty good ending, I thought. I'm not exactly sure how anything Saul eventually confessed to would clear Kim from being sued or prosecuted (although I'm not sure exactly what crimes she committed when fucking with Howard or lying about his death). Maybe the writers wanted to have a Walter White lying to save his family from further legal troubles kinda thing or whatever but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me at this point. I'm not clear on why Saul would take the life sentence after the initial offer of 30 years or the negotiated 7--I'd expect if the judge threw out the plea bargain, there would be some negotiating or going to trial--like I get that his coming clean was supposed to save kim, it's just very, very poorly explained how it would.

I saw someone on Reddit post the canny explanation that Jimmy spent the entire show looking for validation from people, like Chuck, maybe Walter; Kim was the only one willing to see him for the decent person he was underneath (maybe Howard could have, but whatever). He chose to confess and live as Jimmy, rather than get the deal but live an empty existence.

*spoilers*

andyman wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:18 amJimmy spent the entire show looking for validation from people, like Chuck, maybe Walter; Kim was the only one willing to see him for the decent person he was underneath [...] He chose to confess and live as Jimmy, rather than get the deal but live an empty existence.

Right. Jimmy ostensibly shooting himself in the foot by blowing the much more lenient sentence was the price he had to pay for bringing himself closer to Kim again, since she had to be there in court to observe the testimony that could implicate her. It was also a way for her (and everyone else) to witness him atoning for the messed up stuff he got involved in, easing his conscience somewhat. The catch was that in saying his piece, though she did end up feeling for him again, the chance of them resuming a life together on the outside was squelched, since he was going to be in jail far longer, possibly till death.

There were two choices in his head, neither ideal. He could have done the seven years and then resumed the humdrum/marginal life without Kim (or her good graces) that he wasn't suited for, one that would've either numbed him into submission or tempted him to pick up doing shady schemes again, maybe landing him back in prison. Or he'd lay all his cards on the table and enjoy feeling closer to Kim, even if they would be physically apart for perhaps forever.

Jimmy might not have anticipated it, but there's also the fact that he spent much of his professional life around street-level criminals of various sorts, so he was more at home among them than among white collar criminals guilty of embezzlement, insider trading, fraud, negligence, Ponzi schemes and such.

DaveA wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:18 pm It's worth noting here that I did enjoy reading what people had to say about the finale before and after it. As far as "stuff you can see on the internet," it would go in the "Not Crap" pile.

I don't take issue with people having opinions, I just can't deal with the "THIS is what they should have done" side of it, it's of zero interest, and doesn't count as an analysis, it's not insightful or enlightening, it's more about "here's how this product could be better", and it sucks.

Quick question (obvious SPOILER ALERT), cos there was a crucial moment that I completely misinterpreted, and I was wondering if I was alone in that.

When Lalo turns up and wants Jimmy to go to Fring's house and kill him, did everyone think Jimmy's insistence that Kim should go was a result of heroic selflessness (which is clearly what we're meant to think, judging by what follows)? Me, my gut reaction was "Ah, so THIS is the moment of betrayal that kills their relationship, Jimmy cowardly snivelling his way out of something, and making Kim do it."

I'm kind of stunned that I read this so wrong. I'm a screenwriter, and I teach it too, so I'm usually OK at "reading" this kind of thing. Did anyone else out there have a similar reaction/confusion? Getting it wrong threw my compass a bit for what followed.

Dudley wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:38 amWhen Lalo turns up and wants Jimmy to go to Fring's house and kill him, did everyone think Jimmy's insistence that Kim should go was a result of heroic selflessness (which is clearly what we're meant to think, judging by what follows)?

Can't speak for others, but personally, yes. Just getting her out of the same room as Lalo was a wise move. If you were Jimmy, would you want Kim alone with such a person, especially after something like what had just transpired? Something goes wrong with the "errand," and it's another nightmare scenario in that apartment. Even if it just gets held up a bit/takes a little longer than anticipated, if Lalo were to stay put he could get restless and do something awful--better Jimmy than Kim if someone has to bear the brunt of it. If fleeing and/or getting the cops involved is the best bet, better her getting out of it/trying to get him out of a jam than vice versa.

DaveA wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:53 am

Dudley wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:38 amWhen Lalo turns up and wants Jimmy to go to Fring's house and kill him, did everyone think Jimmy's insistence that Kim should go was a result of heroic selflessness (which is clearly what we're meant to think, judging by what follows)?

Can't speak for others, but personally, yes. Just getting her out of the same room as Lalo was a wise move. If you were Jimmy, would you want Kim alone with such a person, especially after something like what had just transpired? Something goes wrong with the "errand," and it's another nightmare scenario in that apartment. Even if it just gets held up a bit/takes a little longer than anticipated, if Lalo were to stay put he could get restless and do something awful--better Jimmy than Kim if someone has to bear the brunt of it. If fleeing and/or getting the cops involved is the best bet, better her getting out of it/trying to get him out of a jam than vice versa.

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely understand the logic of it - my point is that when it was happening, I misread his motivation, and I was a) kinda stunned I got it so wrong and b) interested if this happened because of something in me, or something in the episode. I thought the worst of Jimmy, whereas most people thought the best of him. As someone who writes screen drama, and tries to help other people write it, I'm always fascinated by the reasons for these moments of ambiguity or confusion.

I see what you mean. Again, can't speak for others, but in real time it didn't seem to me Jimmy was potentially throwing Kim under the bus. But there, in that scene, from what I recall, it seemed Jimmy was probably trying to pass off the decision to have Kim do the hit as purely selfish and cowardly, so that Lalo wouldn't see his more strategically sound logic. That might account for your reading of it, I dunno. Kim picked up on Jimmy's angle soon enough, but it was a strange situation in which they were thinking on their feet, dealing with an A-grade psycho. I think the screenwriters might have intended it to seem as if all bets were off.

Dudley wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:38 am When Lalo turns up and wants Jimmy to go to Fring's house and kill him, did everyone think Jimmy's insistence that Kim should go was a result of heroic selflessness ?

Yep.

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:52 am

Dudley wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:38 am When Lalo turns up and wants Jimmy to go to Fring's house and kill him, did everyone think Jimmy's insistence that Kim should go was a result of heroic selflessness ?

Yep.

It made me think for a moment, but I did reach that conclusion after seeing Kim leave the building and Jimmy getting tied up by the guy who just murdered their colleague.