Just trying to eat less meat and dairy because it's unsustainable. Trying to find as much delicious veg and vegan stuff as possible. The only things I think I'd really miss are beef, cheese and squid. Cheese is the only one that would leave a massive hole in my life.

Last red meat was 1992, last chicken or turkey was 1997, don't miss any of it, never even think about it. We're pretty much vegan here except for the occasional pizza.

This may be a few years off but I'm curious about the vegetarian take on lab grown meat and animal products. (a big hurdle right now being the amount of energy the process requires, but let's assume for discussion sake/hope most of that can be offset by renewable energy sources. And the same will apply to every sector of life, basically):

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/wh ... ial-foods/

jirbling rake wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:13 pm But jfv and penningtron mention the part past eating habits: animals as sentient beings. A pig is as smart as a five year old. Cows seem similar at times to dogs (which can also be as smart as toddlers). Fish, it's being discovered, display as much mental ability as many other animals. That makes it hard to imagine eating them again.

This is a part of my dietary choices for sure. It's also, I think, a delicate matter because the crux here is "this is cruel" and that's where the discussion/debate can break down. I think my own tacit contract with this is that, yes the meat industry itself is cruel, but I don't think the people I know who eat meat are cruel people. I don't think I'm a morally superior person because of what I eat even though ethical matters play a role in my diet. I certainly would have been more righteous and evangelical and annoying about this in my younger years.

twelvepoint wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:45 am This is a part of my dietary choices for sure. It's also, I think, a delicate matter because the crux here is "this is cruel" and that's where the discussion/debate can break down. I think my own tacit contract with this is that, yes the meat industry itself is cruel, but I don't think the people I know who eat meat are cruel people. I don't think I'm a morally superior person because of what I eat even though ethical matters play a role in my diet. I certainly would have been more righteous and evangelical and annoying about this in my younger years.

My guess is that the cruelty argument will be supplanted by the "this is killing us all" argument. I just mean that as a prediction, rather than adding any weight to the morality of either side. Increasingly, eating animals is going to be cruel to people and animals.

I've cut back my red meat consumption but it's been a solely a financial choice. When I do eat beef it's going out for a smashburger, or the occasional carne asada or birria from a street vendor. It's more pork, chicken, eggs, and tinned fish for me these days. Lots of rice and pasta for carbs. Some fruits and vegetables in there for good health. Good amount of wine. I eat very little packaged food and have none at home; the occasional bag of potato or tortilla chips, mostly unflavored, or Cheez-It's/Cheese Nips, or Snickers Almond bar (formerly known as Mars Bar) when I'm out in the world and need something quick.

Factory farming sucks, yes, but it's not going away, ever. I realize that street vendors are using that meat, but they make everything well-done so I'm not worried about pathogens from street vendors. I've not had to, but would have no problem killing an animal for food if necessary. I once assisted in butchering a pig I bought from a CSA.

If "food scarcity" is an issue, then so is population growth. We should be careful how we talk about this, and which tactics we employ to solve the problem. Unfortunately, every solution is more of a financial concern (shareholder/investor ROI) than anything else. I worry about laws that are so restrictive that farmers (Netherlands) are now protesting. The rich will always get their meat from someplace, it's not going away. We should not have to restrict our consumption so the rich may continue theirs. I'm really tired of sacrificing for/subsidizing the wealthy.

I'll eat what I eat (in moderation), you eat what you eat. No "toleration" or "respect" involved. I don't like that we've come to a point where those things even have to enter into the conversation about diet.

Edit: I also somewhat believe in the Ayurvedic dosha thing: there are different body types and they need different things to operate at their best. Dunno the science of this, maybe blood type is a crucial factor.

enframed wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:45 am I've cut back my red meat consumption but it's been a solely a financial choice.

At my local supermarket, right now Impossible burger patties are actually cheaper than (pre-made) burger patties made with the real stuff.

The Impossible burger is fantastic, too. I haven't tried their other products, but if they are or will be as good as their burger, I don't think I'll ever be tempted to purchase another meat product again.

enframed wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:45 am We should not have to restrict our consumption so the rich may continue theirs. I'm really tired of sacrificing for/subsidizing the wealthy.

I think the key to avoiding this slippery slope is to ask what is being 'sacrificed'. Eating vegetarian can be awesome (even got to eat Grant Achatz' vegan tasting course once). Selling my car and riding my bike more has been awesome. Being content with a smaller footprint has resulted in less expense and upkeep and generally pretty awesome (room for improvement there still). Yeah, rich fucks will undo much of that (and then some) but I don't want to live like them. That would be embarrassing.

jfv wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:46 am The Impossible burger is fantastic, too. I haven't tried their other products, but if they are or will be as good as their burger, I don't think I'll ever be tempted to purchase another meat product again.

I think the sausages (both Impossible and Beyond) are even better.

jfv wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:46 am The Impossible burger is fantastic, too. I haven't tried their other products, but if they are or will be as good as their burger, I don't think I'll ever be tempted to purchase another meat product again.

I personally think Beyond tastes even better than Impossible. Especially when cooked in a pan. We don't eat it that often, but the burger and breakfast sausage patties really scratch that itch. The frozen Beyond sausage patties are great straight out of the freezer and into a 350 toaster oven for 8 minutes, flipped halfway. I do not recommend microwave.

tommy wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:19 am

jfv wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:46 am The Impossible burger is fantastic, too. I haven't tried their other products, but if they are or will be as good as their burger, I don't think I'll ever be tempted to purchase another meat product again.

I personally think Beyond tastes even better than Impossible. Especially when cooked in a pan. We don't eat it that often, but the burger and breakfast sausage patties really scratch that itch. The frozen Beyond sausage patties are great straight out of the freezer and into a 350 toaster oven for 8 minutes, flipped halfway. I do not recommend microwave.

Perhaps I was having a bad day, but when I tried it, the Beyond burger patty smelled like Alpo dog food.