Zak THICK wrote:One of the few perks of moving to LA (that, and the weather). It's nice leaving a bar and not smelling like an ashtray. Every time I'd leave the Empty Bottle or Fireside, It was like I just smoked a pack from the second hand smoke. Want to smoke? no problem, step outside.

Right. But remember what it's like in the Midwest in the middle of January, when it's well below zero?

Here's the thing: PEOPLE WILL NOT STOP SMOKING. They already, what, maybe doubled the taxes? Didn't change a thing. A citywide ban on indoor smoking, particularly in bars, will hurt business more than help it. People will stay home. We played in Madison the day after the smoking ban went into effect. There were no other rock shows (at least not on our little indie-rock level), it was a Saturday night. Attendance was very, very low. For no other reason than people could no longer smoke inside.

Lame as it is, a lot of people go to shows just to hang out and be seen. They're not going to do that if they can't smoke there. And on the other side, I've come home smelling like a 250 lb. ashtray, with my eyes watering. Done it hundreds of times. Going to do it hundreds more. If it gets to be too much for me, I leave. I have that choice.

Those damn liberal activist judges!

nick92675 wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:No, I realize I am not the center of the fucking universe, when I go out in public I must deal with the public...

why is it so easy to see it from one side and not the other? how about:

No, I realize I (smoker) am not the center of the fucking universe (and my actions affect those around me), when I go out in public I must deal with the public... (nonsmokers: who outnumber smokers)

just wondering?

i'm not saying it's a black and white case at all.

The fact is bars have long been established as places people who enjoy smoking can go and smoke. As far as non-smokers outnumbering smokers...go into a bar, any bar and look around....I would say smokers way, way outnumber nonsmokers in bars. People are not allowed to smoke pretty much everywhere as it is, they only have bars left...why should the people who enjoy smoking have that taken away from them as well because suddenly half the population have become scared shitless of not living to be a hundred and ten fucking years old?
Just don't go there if you don't like it. If you do go there anyway, knowing it's a place where people smoke you just gotta deal with it, sorry. Would you hang out in a kennel in your spare time if you didn't like the smell of dog shit?
What happens if the next thing that really bugs people is something you enjoy?

I for one welcome it. I don't see why anyone should be forced to breathe someone else's smoke. It's a question of health, and the right to smoke infringes on others' space and rights almost instantly. One smoker can fuck up a good chunk of air, but no number of non-smokers can unfuck air.

Going by the cities that have already implemented such laws, smoking bans haven't actually hurt business, as the smokers who leave are replaced by non-smokers who start coming or stay longer.

Banning smoking, if done, should be initiated by individual business owners. I don't smoke, and I don't like the smell of smoke, but I really don't like the government intervening to this degree. You don't like the fact that people are smoking in an establishment, you go somewhere else. Everyone else shouldn't have to concede to the preferences of nonsmokers.

And, yes, I realize this has already been said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there bars before there was smoking?

P.S. How's my grammar?

If it were left up to individual bar owners, there would be not a single bar that would choose to make their venue non-smoking because they would lose business. If there is an outright ban, people will have no choice, and continue to visit their favorite bars based on the quality of entertainment, not whether it's a "smoking bar" or not.

russ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there bars before there was smoking?

Not in America. As you're seeing, in America, nothing comes before tobacco. Except for alcohol. And firearms. That's why we have an entire bureau of the government to promote their use.

russ wrote:P.S. How's my grammar?

Fucking flawless.

Basically the entire province of Ontario has gone smoke free over the past 5 years or so, and in every city, bar owners complained that they'd lose business, and for about a month they were right...then in every city it went back to the initial level, if not higher. cause the fact is, there are more people in the world who don't smoke, so obviously you're now appealing to a much bigger demographic. many of the bars here have built heated patios where people can still smoke and get served and whatnot, and that system seems to be working very well. smokers can still come and drink and whatever, and non-smokers can go out and not get bothered.

people always say stuff like, "we've always been able to smoke at bars, what gives?" and the answer is just because we've always done something, doesn't mean we should neccesarily keep doing it. like, 175 years ago people would have been saying, "come on, we've had slaves for years! the government shouldn't be able to tell us we can't!" let's get out of the stone age and stop wasting time with this argument. probably in our lifetimes, most public places will be smoke free. get used to the idea.

Where can I find these so-called "Fart Bars"? Also, I support "unfucking the air" 100%. Wage ass!