I'd have to agree for the most part about the state of jazz today, as opposed to the yesteryears. Jazz simply isn't done the way it used to be done. So many different and diverse elements have been introduced into music. Technological advances have played a role. And popular culture/opinion towards music has shifted. This is (of course) obvious, but represents key aspects of the evolution of music.

With this said, I would concur with the point that I haven't heard anything that I would consider "straight jazz" (or jazz that isn't watered down/polluted w/ other elements) that sounded appealing in most of my years. The pinnacle of jazz to me will always be 'Kind of Blue'... Davis. That album encompasses everything I could ever want out of jazz. Although I do like many others, that would be the pinnacle of jazz IMO.

As far as the fusion of jazz w/ rock, especially indie rock... there is some promise there. Tortoise, Don Cab, and bands of the like (in the mathrock or avant vein) really float my boat. Good good stuff. And the closest to maintaining the element of jazz, w/out compromising it's integrity too much (in my opinion). You can still see that layer of jazz in the mix. Like on of those mixed shots... where you can see the layers of liquor/liqeuer.

It's hard to come by, but it's always refreshing to hear a band w/ a sound that contains colours and hints of jazz; and do it well. Keep dropping the names of some artists. I'd like some suggestions into some sounds to check out.

Oxes. ?

i also am bored and have 2 cents on this one.

somewhere along the way
jazz music, and some other modern arts,
were assimilated by Institutions of Higher Education.

university administrators are businessmen.
universities are in the business of staying in business.
for enrollment numbers to go up and stay up you offer
areas of study that may not actually be best served by an institution.
art, music and philosophy spring immediately to mind.

as long as universities are in charge of setting the agenda
for certain arts, youknow. the future of these arts doesnt look so
bright. the jazz curriculum seems like a good enough idea: "here, listen to these great records and go practice alot"

you can lead a horse to water.


blah blah blah anyway so yeah, jet, boo on the new jazzz.
are there any wayne shorter fans in the house? 'speak no evil', anyone?
how bout eric dolphy 'out to lunch' yow!

SchnappM wrote:Ah, come on, that's junk. In these days white people have just as much of a right to play jazz music as black people do.

I said they have no business playing jazz, not right. Black people are just inherently better at jazz and blues, thats just the truth.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:Oxes. ?

Rule.

justinc wrote:how bout eric dolphy 'out to lunch' yow!

Yeah! now you're talking!

I love this album. Bass clarinet by Dolphy, Bobby Hutcherson on vibes, who could ask for more? "Straight Up and Down" is an all time favorite track anywhere, anytime, any mood.

I know this album might epitomize the "endless noodling" and "wanking off" for most that might hear it the first time. To me it sounds endlessly musical, but from a planet where people carry on conversations using their instruments, chit chatting and yelling and professing love with sticks in hands and horns in mouth.

Danm wrote:

SchnappM wrote:Ah, come on, that's junk. In these days white people have just as much of a right to play jazz music as black people do.

I said they have no business playing jazz, not right. Black people are just inherently better at jazz and blues, thats just the truth.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:Oxes. ?

Rule.

Now I'm pissed. You have to be joking. White folks have no business playing jazz? You are a moron. Thats exatly like saying black folks should not play classical. Or Mexicans shoudn't play rock music.
Your understanding of jazz music must be incredably limited. Jimmy Giuffre is one of the most important and influential jazz musicians of the last 60 years. Fact!!! Do your research. He is white. So is Lennie Tristano. Hugely influential. White!!!! Lee Konitz!!!!! When Miles Davis was asked why he had that square white guy Konitz play on the "Birth Of The Cool" L.P. his response was "find me a black dude that has that tone and I will use him". Miles Davis and Charlie Mingus who both did not care for white folks very much at all used them all the time. Ellington, Basie all had white guts play for them. Benny Goodman was considered by everybody at the time, both black and white to be the best clarinet player in jazz. They wanted the "best" musicians for their vision, not the best black musicians. Steve Lacy, Jackie McClean and Keith Jarret are pretty light skined, does that make them allmost good jazz musians? How much black blood does someone need?

"Well shit, my Grandma was white but everyone else was black, so I guess that means I shouldn't try that jazz music thing, figuring I'm not all black and all!"

If you hate jazz, thats fine. But at least have some idea what the you are talking about.

And, I hate to break it to you all, Don Cab is not Jazz. They do not in anyway improvise, which is the core of jazz. I even asked Damon Che if thier songs came out of jams/improvisations. He said no. Tortoise and Don Cab are an extension of prog/art rock. The complixety and instrumentation of these bands can be traced right back to "prog" - King Crimson/Rush - Don Cab and "art" - Pengiun Cafe Orchestra/Robert Wyatt/Eno - Tortoise. Sure both Tortoise and Don Cab have way more influences than those, but Red by King Crimson is a hell of a lot closer to Don Cab than Eric Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" or Miles Davis "Bitches Brew or Kind Of Blue". And that first Penguin Cafe lp and Robert Wyatts "Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard" and Eno's "Before And After Sciece" sound a hell of a lot more like Tortoise than Coltrane's "Love Supreme" or John McClaughlins "Extrapolation". Maybe you think Weather Report and Chick Corea when your making your Tortoise Jazz comparisions.
Jazz at its core is improvisation. You can argue forever what constitutes true "improvisation", but that is another arguement.

By the way, John Coltranes favorite sax player?
Stan Getz,
who by the way was
white.

The drummer who eveyone, black and white, wanted to play with them in the 40's/50's?
Buddy Rich
who by the way was
white.

As far good new jazz goes, Chicago is a good place to find it. There are older musicians who have been playing great stuff for years, as well a lot of younger folks. Plenty of black and white musicians playing jazz that is not crap.

here are two places to find it:

http://www.velvetlounge.net/home.html
http://www.emptybottle.com/jazzseries.php

-Amos

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cool your engines capnreverb. I realize its hard for some people to pick up on sarcasm, especially online... but jesus...

You have alot of good points, and I'm not pretending to know everything about the genre, but you're getting way too offended by my statement, whether it was a joke or not. I personally know many excellent jazz musicians of all sorts of colors.


Does anyone consider Volta Do Mar jazz(y)?

Hey Capnreverb,

Are you familiar with recordings Dolphy did with the Chico Hamilton Group? I recently picked up "The Original Ellington Suite" and I really dig his playing, especially on "In A Sentimental Mood" - fantastic! Can you recommend any others that are out there - hopefully in print?

I've got some of Hamilton's earlier stuff on Pacific Jazz LP's (1209 and 1215, I think), but that's with Buddy Colette; which is a whole different bird, but still quite enjoyable.

Any comments would be appreciated....