I was about to write this in another post, but decided against it:
These "post" genres like "post rock" are meaningless to me. Maybe I'm too sleepy to understand them, but then again I've never understood them, really. I understand post modernism pretty well (at least I did when I was in skool), but not as it relates to rock and roll. "Post rock" means nothing to me because these bands are playing what sounds to me like "rock," it doesn't seem "post" anything. They have lots of different inspirations that can sometimes be heard in their music, does that make them "post rock?"
What does "post rock" mean? And what does "post modernism" mean when we're talking about rock music? Are there examples of current "post" and "non-post" rock bands?
Thanks in advance,
Michael
post modern-post rock
2i'm half answering. and using paragraphs, too! 
it's simultaneously a great thing and a shit thing that these genre names don't make sense anymore.
great thing : there's a massive variety of different kinds of music whereas back when a label like "rock and roll" meant something something very specific, there appears to have been much more homogeneity in music, especially popular music anyways.
shit thing : "what does your band sound like?" "rock." what the hell does that even tell me, really? do you sound like ACDC or Chuck Berry? labels aren't the clear indicator of what you're gonna get that they used to be, or at least not in as short-winded a label.
so yeah, "post-rock" to me is useless. it means you sound like uh, mission of burma! yeah, them. ?
here's my answer to people's insistance on compartmentalizing music into genres or movements or whatever "post-xxxx" is
Drunken Cock-Rock
Hippie Jam Band
Non-Acoustic, Spacey
Non-Acoustic, Angry
Distorted Yet Ear-friendly, Sans Sappy Vocals
Think They Have A New Sound But Man Are They Wrong!
Singer Can't Sing But Man Can He Play Guitar
Skilled But Passionless
Didn't Spend Enough Time On Songwriting
Uber-Mega-Math Rock Is Awesome, zzzzzzz...
Have No Fucking Business Being On A Stage
Makes Me Wanna Hump The Chick Next To Me
Makes Me Wanna Punch The Dood Next To Me
These Guys Ruled Several Albums Ago...
etc
etc
etc
these are much more meaningful labels to me than "rock" or "post-rock" or anything of the like. maybe we could all put our heads together and come up with a list of descriptors like these, where when you hear the descriptor you have at least a sense of what you're gonna get. you could combine like three of them and know exactly what the band is gonna sound like.
it's simultaneously a great thing and a shit thing that these genre names don't make sense anymore.
great thing : there's a massive variety of different kinds of music whereas back when a label like "rock and roll" meant something something very specific, there appears to have been much more homogeneity in music, especially popular music anyways.
shit thing : "what does your band sound like?" "rock." what the hell does that even tell me, really? do you sound like ACDC or Chuck Berry? labels aren't the clear indicator of what you're gonna get that they used to be, or at least not in as short-winded a label.
so yeah, "post-rock" to me is useless. it means you sound like uh, mission of burma! yeah, them. ?
here's my answer to people's insistance on compartmentalizing music into genres or movements or whatever "post-xxxx" is
Drunken Cock-Rock
Hippie Jam Band
Non-Acoustic, Spacey
Non-Acoustic, Angry
Distorted Yet Ear-friendly, Sans Sappy Vocals
Think They Have A New Sound But Man Are They Wrong!
Singer Can't Sing But Man Can He Play Guitar
Skilled But Passionless
Didn't Spend Enough Time On Songwriting
Uber-Mega-Math Rock Is Awesome, zzzzzzz...
Have No Fucking Business Being On A Stage
Makes Me Wanna Hump The Chick Next To Me
Makes Me Wanna Punch The Dood Next To Me
These Guys Ruled Several Albums Ago...
etc
etc
etc
these are much more meaningful labels to me than "rock" or "post-rock" or anything of the like. maybe we could all put our heads together and come up with a list of descriptors like these, where when you hear the descriptor you have at least a sense of what you're gonna get. you could combine like three of them and know exactly what the band is gonna sound like.
post modern-post rock
3I believe "post rock" to be a viable term, as much as art rock, no depression, heavy metal, hard rock, blues rock, hardcore, punk. It defines a specific genre that people can pidgeonhole. Where a specific band belongs is another question. Is Black Flag a punk band or a hardcore band. Is Deep Purple a metal band or hard rock rock band etc.....
To me, post rock symbolizes music that is largely instrumental, often quite "arty" and uses elements and influences of differant kinds of genres and music. Its also a handy term for a band that does not really fit any specific genre.
But the terms pitfall is the same as "postmodern", there is no post modern or post rock in the grand scheme of things. Its just a handy term.
If you can put all sorts of bands in one genre that most people can agree upon, than it is an apt term. Don Cab, Gastr Del Sol, and Tortiose do not sound alike, but most would call them post rock. Also, bands that sound simaler are also called post rock. It's viable. Also, if someone says math rock, you know exactly what they mean. It may be a dumb term, but it works.
To me, post rock symbolizes music that is largely instrumental, often quite "arty" and uses elements and influences of differant kinds of genres and music. Its also a handy term for a band that does not really fit any specific genre.
But the terms pitfall is the same as "postmodern", there is no post modern or post rock in the grand scheme of things. Its just a handy term.
If you can put all sorts of bands in one genre that most people can agree upon, than it is an apt term. Don Cab, Gastr Del Sol, and Tortiose do not sound alike, but most would call them post rock. Also, bands that sound simaler are also called post rock. It's viable. Also, if someone says math rock, you know exactly what they mean. It may be a dumb term, but it works.
post modern-post rock
4Culturally speaking, we are living in postmodern times (and if you don't believe me, watch that new VH1 show that asks you to be nostalgic about LAST WEEK). To define terms, I'm referring to a culture which:
-Believes fundamentally that we've reached 'the end of history' (i.e. the end of modernism) and that there's nothing truly new under the sun
-Has a deep and self-conscious awareness of cultural history and specific cultural movements/events/trends within that history (often broken down into decades)
-Has a cultural outlook that is fundamentally irreverent, ironic, humorous (everything that modernism supposedly wasn't)
-DOES NOT make value judgements which would place categories like highbrow/middlebrow/lowbrow on culture
-Believes that only in the mixing and matching of different cultural movements/events/trends from the past, without the self-imposed restrictions and divisions of highbrow/lowbrow, "good"/"bad", etc., can something "new" be created
Looking at it this way, pretty much all current rock bands are postmodern. That includes underground/indie/punk bands. I think a postmodernist would say to anybody playing rock music in 2004 that they are participating in an act of nostalgia within an essentially dead form. That's not to say that great music can't be made within it.
Sometimes I think bands like Autechre are pointing toward a way out of postmoderism (back in to modernism?). I listen to them and can't really hear any cultural signifiers of what came before. Their song titles aren't in any language (like "Finnegan's Wake" wasn't). They are using technology that didn't exist before. As a modernist, I strongly approve.
-Believes fundamentally that we've reached 'the end of history' (i.e. the end of modernism) and that there's nothing truly new under the sun
-Has a deep and self-conscious awareness of cultural history and specific cultural movements/events/trends within that history (often broken down into decades)
-Has a cultural outlook that is fundamentally irreverent, ironic, humorous (everything that modernism supposedly wasn't)
-DOES NOT make value judgements which would place categories like highbrow/middlebrow/lowbrow on culture
-Believes that only in the mixing and matching of different cultural movements/events/trends from the past, without the self-imposed restrictions and divisions of highbrow/lowbrow, "good"/"bad", etc., can something "new" be created
Looking at it this way, pretty much all current rock bands are postmodern. That includes underground/indie/punk bands. I think a postmodernist would say to anybody playing rock music in 2004 that they are participating in an act of nostalgia within an essentially dead form. That's not to say that great music can't be made within it.
Sometimes I think bands like Autechre are pointing toward a way out of postmoderism (back in to modernism?). I listen to them and can't really hear any cultural signifiers of what came before. Their song titles aren't in any language (like "Finnegan's Wake" wasn't). They are using technology that didn't exist before. As a modernist, I strongly approve.
post modern-post rock
5I definitely don't have a problem with categorizing bands by genre, or with making up new, agreed-upon genres for new bands etc. It's fun.
I do have a problem with "post rock" though, and I disagree (regarding the bands you mentioned) that "...most would call them post rock." Do people really call bands that? And expect that people will know what they're talking about? If someone says "post rock," will most people know they're talking about music that's " largely instrumental, often quite 'arty' and uses elements and influences of different kinds of genres and music?"
I live in a deep dark cave, so maybe they do and I just missed it.
I do have a problem with "post rock" though, and I disagree (regarding the bands you mentioned) that "...most would call them post rock." Do people really call bands that? And expect that people will know what they're talking about? If someone says "post rock," will most people know they're talking about music that's " largely instrumental, often quite 'arty' and uses elements and influences of different kinds of genres and music?"
I live in a deep dark cave, so maybe they do and I just missed it.
post modern-post rock
6post modernism = modernism.
so there shoudln't really be a debate because it doesn't exist.
so there shoudln't really be a debate because it doesn't exist.
post modern-post rock
10Holy cow, it's true. Post rock. I had no idea.
It's funny - this sort of thing is, for me, fun to think about; but reading this article turned my stomach. Not that I think the guy's "wrong" or anything (I don't care enough to think about it enough to decide), it just makes me ill to read shit like "The Post Rock scene is an exciting alternative to recycled alternative. There is constant growth from established artists and always a new and interesting band on the horizon."
I think it's fine to categorize music & musicians & bands in a joking sort of way, but once it turns official, I wanna barf.