I've just recorded a few drum kits to this day, and I have had a "problem" with each one. The snare didn't sound too big, warm, rich, you name it. It always tend to be a high-pitched "plack" that only gets to sound good if blended with a bottom mic. I was thinking that, given that I have a good sounding snare, a decent drummer and a couple of mics to try and I don't get the sound I like, maybe loosening the batter side of the snare would give me a more pleasant sound... Would this fuck up the tuning?

Recently i've been trying a few things with snares.
I've found that if you're using a drum with an air hole on the side (I don't know their 'proper' name....) it can sound pretty good if you stick a pop shield on a decent condenser and mic the hole. No pop shield = unusable sound due to air being pushed out of the drum. I gives the sound a bit more realism (and a bit more of the actual snare sound) but not to a stupid degree where all you get is rattle (as my experiments with miccing the bottom of the drum have turned out).

Regarding tuning, I generally try to work with what's there but yeah detuning the batter head might work. I always get drummers that i'm recording to properly tune their drums on (both sides) to suit the room we're working in. With drum tuning I find that what sound good in a band's practice space doesn't necessarily translate well into a studio environment.

If you suspect the tuning may be wrong check out http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

I found it a great resource not only about drum tuning but just generally about drums.

I sometimes get more weight out of the snare pointing the mic to the middle of the drum away from the rim.

Most of the time a little distance will help if you can spare it. Depends on the hihat...

I always liked the snare sound in the overheads more than in the snare mic (sounded more like a snare...) but rarely do I have a good mix of the drums with only the overheads. Mixing in the snare mic gave more snare but I felt I was losing attack. Lately I've had good results forgetting about the overheads and using the delayed ambience mics and the direct mics. This usually gives plenty of attack and can sound natural as well.

Try a dynamic and a condenser together on the snare top. I use a beyer m201 and an akg c61 (it's what I have...) stuck together with duckt tape to align the capsules. This way you end up using less eq...

I hope some of this is helpful

Javier Ortiz

I tend to like more the sound of the snare on the overheads too, but that way it gets a strange feeling, like it being "a little away from the rest of the kit". The room where I am recording its not too big, and room mics would be useless, I think. I'll try to put the mic further away from the ring, but I think it will only get me more hihat...

Javier, I've finished last week with the band I told you about. I'll make some mp3's and send it to you, so you can tell me how do you see them. I've been not be able to get away from the phase issues in the guitars... maybe the next time I'll use just one mic on each instead of 3 or 4. Novice msitakes are great!

Try leaning more on the overheads and especially on room / ambient mics for the body of the snare, use the close mics for a little more definition, and for making the snare sound less distant. Try starting with the overheads / room mics, and bringing in the close mic slowly, until the snare starts sounding, well, as close as you need it to. I wouldn't discard ambient miking, even if you don't think the room is big enough. Give it a try.

In the case of spaced pair overheads, something that has worked for me is making sure the capsules of both mics are equally distant from the snare. It's usually not that much of a compromise in terms of the overall drum sound to change the exact distance between the overheads and the cymbals they're capturing, that precise positioning has much more of an effect on the snare sound (at least in my limited experience). Try positioning both overheads in a way that sounds good to you as far as the cymbals go, then choose the one that sounds best with the close snare mic, leave that one alone, and move the other one until you feel both overheads, when summed with the close mic, make the snare sound inequivocally fatter and more present. Usually I measure the distances with a mic cable.

I haven't gotten into checking phase relationships between overheads and toms yet, anyone with any insight on that will be doing me a favour.

I tend to like more the sound of the snare on the overheads too, but that way it gets a strange feeling, like it being "a little away from the rest of the kit".

Mmmm. I often find it useful to have the drum kit/snare "move back" a bit. I guess it depends on the band/material. If you're going for a very dry snare sound then you have to get it mostly from the snare mic. What mic where you using? which preamp? Oh, check the phase. I'm sure you have.... I just find it specially hard with the snare drum. Maybe double check it. see if you get more weight out of it. If you've recorded on protools remember tdm plugins delay the signal. This can totally fuck up your drum sound (if you insert a 1 band eq plug in on your snare you delay that track three samples@44,1Khz in a tdm system...)

I agree with Bernardo. Try to get some room tracks. I remember the pictures you posted of the room you were working in. It didn't look promising, but give it a try. I would go for spaced omnis against the wall (I mean touching the walls...) or in the corners were the floor meets the walls. If you delay these mics you might get something useful. I find the room sound provides realism and more weight to the kit. It really helps to give a sense of size and loudness.

This is kind of unrelated to your post but you might find it interesting. http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/glynjohns.htm
I find it usefull when cymbals are bright and loud and I'm having a hard time getting the toms to "come out".

I'm looking forward to those mp3s. Phase cancellation is a pain in the cock!

Javier Ortiz

Well, this monday we've been recording another drum kit for a friends' band. I'll post the photos and how I mic'ed it and the rest of the band when we are done with it, but i have to say for the first time I am happy with the drum sound. The first thing I noticed is the HUGE difference that makes a good drummer. Now I remember all the big guys saying that and I being exceptical...
The snare, I got it right, I think. I asked the drummer to give a try loosening the beater side to not get that high pitched sound from the snare, and boy, it changed A LOT. For the room mics, I put a MS pair in fron of the kit and it helped the stereo image and blend the kit toghether.
As I said, next week we'll finish the rest of the band and I'll try to post a large explanation of the recording for you to see.
Thanks!

PD: fortunately, I am not recording in PT. It's a SSL 4000G+! (SAE Madrid). The recorder is a digital Mackie, though... (tipical courtesy of SAE, too...)

cenafria wrote:...I would go for spaced omnis against the wall (I mean touching the walls...) or in the corners were the floor meets the walls.

...

Phase cancellation is a pain in the cock!

Putting microphones near (reflective) walls or corners is a way to almost guarantee that you will have phase problems, isn't it?

toomanyhelicopters wrote:

cenafria wrote:...I would go for spaced omnis against the wall (I mean touching the walls...) or in the corners were the floor meets the walls.

...

Phase cancellation is a pain in the cock!

Putting microphones near (reflective) walls or corners is a way to almost guarantee that you will have phase problems, isn't it?

...and what about using PZMs? would the phase problems be as big?

no phase problem if the mike is directly on the surface . even it's the only case where you are sure there is no phase problem .
i like to put omni mike directly on the floor or on wall ; very nice to get the room sound in a small room where phase is tricky .