Ty Webb wrote:

Cranius wrote:I don't think that that's quite it. Pretension is the deployment of hollow artifice to achieve an order of gravity that is unmerited. It's when someone or something pretends to be more than the sum of it's parts.

For example, if you were watching a french film that traded on stock art-house conventions, whilst the plot and characters were cipher-like and vapid, you could say the film was pretentious, because it tries to achieve depth of meaning through the stylistic mimicry of high art, rather than actual substance.

I think pententious is a perfectly valid criticism, as long as it's applied correctly.

at is fucking brilliant. Well said! I especially like this: "Pretension is the deployment of hollow artifice to achieve an order of gravity that is unmerited."

Damn straight. Very aptly put.

And I'm definitely going to carve that into my skin during my next performance art piece, "Flesh Is The Crucible Of Oblivion, Part 12."

Damn.

Ty Webb wrote:

Cranius wrote:I don't think that that's quite it. Pretension is the deployment of hollow artifice to achieve an order of gravity that is unmerited. It's when someone or something pretends to be more than the sum of it's parts.

For example, if you were watching a french film that traded on stock art-house conventions, whilst the plot and characters were cipher-like and vapid, you could say the film was pretentious, because it tries to achieve depth of meaning through the stylistic mimicry of high art, rather than actual substance.

I think pententious is a perfectly valid criticism, as long as it's applied correctly.

Not Crap.

That is fucking brilliant. Well said! I especially like this: "Pretension is the deployment of hollow artifice to achieve an order of gravity that is unmerited."

Damn straight. Very aptly put.

I second this. Well put, Crane-Crane.

One dictionary definition of "pretentious" wrote: Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious

How many bands, artists, etc. do we all really like who are "making or marked by an extravagant outward show?"

I'd say it's a lot!

Fucking GWAR, man!

Pretentious is N/C.

Cranius wrote:

Rotten Tanx wrote:What's implied, often, is a class division of sorts. That some people can make high art and some are just average people trying too hard.

I don't think that that's quite it. Pretension is the deployment of hollow artifice to achieve an order of gravity that is unmerited. It's when someone or something pretends to be more than the sum of it's parts.

Bravo.

I really hate this word, not because I don't think it's a valid criticism, but because it's one of those words that is so often misapplied that it has lost its intended meaning.

A friend of mine once started a "joke" band that played noisy post-rock sort of like early Mogwai (except it was all improvised) and had really ridiculous song names like "Soon There Will Be All Love" and "Eating The River." Whenever someone would tell him that his band sucked, he'd shrug it off by saying, "Oh, well, it's just a joke band." Whenever someone would compliment his band, he'd instead take it to heart. Eventually, the band broke up and my friend was depressed that none of the other members took it as seriously as he did, and I then reminded him that it was supposedly a "joke" band.

Really not the same as your example, but to me, this is far more pretentious than simply aiming to create high art despite the lack of credentials because it's dishonest, plain and simple.

Quite unbelievable... I wanted to start this exact same thread, because it seemed pretty unlikely to me that this had already been discussed. I was being pedantic and used the search function just the same. Et voilá...

You surprise me again and again you people.

I have only ever seen somebody use the word 'pretentious' once.
She accused me of being pretentious after years of knowing her.
"You're pretentious."
I told her to explain herself.
"Explain yourself."
"You think you're better than me. You use big words, you type properly, you refuse to read things that aren't written in proper English. You don't listen to bands because they are popular."

I laughed a lot at that.
Pretentious is a word I quite enjoy seeing or hearing when it's not being used to described art.