Chevelle?

Crap
Total votes: 16 (53%)
Not Crap
Total votes: 14 (47%)
Total votes: 30

Band : Chevelle

21
ytrehalf wrote:Perhaps you're speaking of the public square in general.

I am.

If so, I can assure you that there are other groups in the US that wield far more power and dominance than Christians.

No other sect, certainly not. The dominating majority -- nearly unanimity -- of all officials, lawmakers. power brokers and public figures are "christian," christian traditions and themes are codified in law and custom, the clergy are exempt form legal obligations, taxation, etc. There is a longstanding tradition of benediction, blessing, group prayer, the institution of chaplains, etc. that imply a special, important, insulated, exalted place for religion (in a forcedly-general way) that stems from the power and influence weilded by christianity and church over our people.

You are joking or deluded if you think there is a bigger influence on our culture, or ever has been.

And that's despite the fact that the majority, 87% percent of Americans identify themselves as Christian. If you're bothered by whatever control Christians exercise in a Christian majority, then what of those far more powerful and controlling groups such as AIPAC and the ADL that represent the interests of a tiny minority?

Minority rights must be defended vigorously or we have a tyranny of the majority. I see such work as honorable, even though I disagree about the aims of the proteced groups in specifics. And your 87 percent figure pretty much proves my earlier point, does it not?
steve albini
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.

Band : Chevelle

22
steve wrote:No other sect, certainly not. The dominating majority -- nearly unanimity -- of all officials, lawmakers. power brokers and public figures are "christian," christian traditions and themes are codified in law and custom, the clergy are exempt form legal obligations, taxation, etc. There is a longstanding tradition of benediction, blessing, group prayer, the institution of chaplains, etc. that imply a special, important, insulated, exalted place for religion (in a forcedly-general way) that stems from the power and influence weilded by christianity and church over our people.


There is a history of Christian influence in this country. There is no doubt of that. The majority of immigrants to the US have been Christians. Why would it be otherwise? But this all has changed drastically in more recent times.

The point regarding tax exemption is a non-issue. Non-Christian religions receive the same privileges.

It's quite appropriate that you put "Christian" in quotes in reference to lawmakers. Most all "Christians" in power today are phonies. Further, a large percentage of Americans who identify themselves as "Christians" today are really Zionists, particularly the Evangelicals.

steve wrote:You are joking or deluded if you think there is a bigger influence on our culture, or ever has been.


AIPAC and the ADL are a much more powerful force in this country than Christians. I would add the even smaller, yet inordinately powerful Chabad Lubavitch sect to that list as well. What other religious group has the power to have a 30 foot tall symbol representative of their religion placed on the White House lawn each year?

Image




Rabbi Levi Shemtov, Chabad's representative in Washington plainly stated that the 30 foot Menorah in front of the White House is, "... a brazen mark of influence, especially as the menorah lighting claims to speak for an American Jewish community that traditionally has been uncomfortable with displays of belief on public land."

http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=4543&TM=41585.36

I have no doubt that there are many Christians in the US who would like to have a 30 foot tall Crucifix placed in front of the White House, but the ADL would have any such effort crushed in a heartbeat. This is not "delusion." This is reality.


steve wrote:Minority rights must be defended vigorously or we have a tyranny of the majority. I see such work as honorable, even though I disagree about the aims of the proteced groups in specifics.


Is a tyranny of the minority preferable or more just, in your opinion?

steve wrote:And your 87 percent figure pretty much proves my earlier point, does it not?


It proves nothing aside from the fact that 87% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. The statistic proves nothing about power or influence. And as I said, of those Americans who call themselves "Christian," a very large percentage are really Zionists, Pantheists, New Agers, etc.
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Last edited by ytrehalf_Archive on Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:59 pm, edited 11 times in total.

Band : Chevelle

23
steve wrote:"... christian traditions and themes are codified in law and custom ..."


Here's a more recent development that cuts against your argument.

This Orwellian law which "recognizes" that rabbinic, Talmudic law forms the "basis of civilized society ... upon which our great Nation was founded" was brought to us care of our so-called "Christian" lawmakers in Washington.

Public Law 102-14

102d CONGRESS, 1st Session

H. J. RES. 104

JOINT RESOLUTION

To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day , U.S.A. '.

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;


Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe,' this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving,' the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A. '. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

Approved March 20, 1991. Signed by George Bush, President of the United States of America




http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.J.RES.104.ENR:


Read here about the "Christian," Ronald Reagan and his remarkable relationship with, and concessions to the Chabad Lubavitch sect.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=142535

If anything, watch this video clip:

http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/MediaPlayer/play.asp?id=107770&f=%C2%A7%C3%88%C3%B4H%C3%A3j%C3%9F%C2%BA%E2%80
Last edited by ytrehalf_Archive on Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Band : Chevelle

28
steve wrote:
vilna43 wrote:next album you dog of a engineer no accomodations for you to take advantage of with your dominating heathen style.

I quite like "Dominating Heathen Style." It sounds like a Wu-Tang slogan or Lee Perry or something.

Lay the bass dominating heathen style!

I break the microphone dominating heathen style!

Pretty girls all come crying dominating heathen style!

Suckers beware dominating heathen style!

I think you've done me a huge favor here, Andrew. Happy New Year.


This was so needed this morning. Thank you!

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