DrAwkward wrote:Even for those of us who were into hair metal back when (and still have a soft spot for bands like Poison and Warrant), Guns 'N' Roses was operating on a far superior plane to other so-called "hair bands." I don't know whether or not it pays to go into detailed explanations as to why anything off Appetite for Destruction is light-years ahead of anything off Open Up and Say...Ahh!, because if you weren't into it back in the day, you probably won't take the time to go back and rediscover the albums.

I have had this "Guns 'N' Roses were better than other cock rock bands of the time" discussion with my girlfriend on a few occasions, and I just don't see it. I was a kid in the mid-to-late '80s, and I liked whatever cock rock was popular. I certainly enjoyed G'N'F'n'R's Appetite for Destruction immensely when it was released, but I just can't listen to it now. I suspect that nostalgia plays a huge part in my continued ability to enjoy '70s Kiss albums, but I listened to my old Appetite... cassette fairly recently, and I just cannot see why people want to judge them less harshly than all the other manufactured cock rock of the day.

Does wearing black spandex instead of pink spandex make G'N'R's albums more reputable and/or gritty than, say, Enuff Z'Nuff's or Britny Fox's in retrospect? Possibly!

I fear any explanation would be lost on me, as I probably just don't get it or something. Cock rock is cock rock! Except '70s Kiss!

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DrAwkward wrote:Even for those of us who were into hair metal back when (and still have a soft spot for bands like Poison and Warrant), Guns 'N' Roses was operating on a far superior plane to other so-called "hair bands." I don't know whether or not it pays to go into detailed explanations as to why anything off Appetite for Destruction is light-years ahead of anything off Open Up and Say...Ahh!, because if you weren't into it back in the day, you probably won't take the time to go back and rediscover the albums.

I have had this "Guns 'N' Roses were better than other cock rock bands of the time" discussion with my girlfriend on a few occasions, and I just don't see it. I was a kid in the mid-to-late '80s, and I liked whatever cock rock was popular. I certainly enjoyed G'N'F'n'R's Appetite for Destruction immensely when it was released, but I just can't listen to it now. I suspect that nostalgia plays a huge part in my continued ability to enjoy '70s Kiss albums, but I listened to my old Appetite... cassette fairly recently, and I just cannot see why people want to judge them less harshly than all the other manufactured cock rock of the day.

Does wearing black spandex instead of pink spandex make G'N'R's albums more reputable and/or gritty than, say, Enuff Z'Nuff's or Britny Fox's in retrospect? Possibly!

I fear any explanation would be lost on me, as I probably just don't get it or something. Cock rock is cock rock! Except '70s Kiss!

It could very well be an aesthetic thing, because while i love me some KISS, that band put out a whooooole lotta shit songs.

G'N'R's non-single album tracks (from Appetite--it should be noted that i more or less consider the Use Your Illusion records bloated disasters) are bluesy, gritty, loud, and far beyond any non-single tracks by Poison (except maybe "Back to the Rocking Horse" off Open Up..., because that song's super catchy). It's pretty clear to me that G'N'R were pulling their influences from a wider swath of rock music than most hair bands were (i think it's safe to say that most hair bands were into KISS, Van Halen, and Aerosmith, and if you were Whitesnake, you maybe dug a little Zep, too, but that's it. G'N'R, however, had a bass player from the Seattle punk scene, fer crissakes).

Also, i have a problem with any broad dismissal of any musical genre. There's quality stuff everywhere you look...some genres just have a lot more shit to them than others. But dismissing all cock rock (except KISS!) as crap is just short-sighted.

I'm sticking up for hair metal on a message board affiliated with Shellac. This rules.

DrAwkward wrote:Also, i have a problem with any broad dismissal of any musical genre. There's quality stuff everywhere you look...some genres just have a lot more shit to them than others. But dismissing all cock rock (except KISS!) as crap is just short-sighted.

This is going to make me look like a false metal weakling, but I agree with the first part of this. I am more than willing to accept that all genres of music, even those I personally find loathsome, probably have their high points. I understand your point, but fail to see how Guns 'N' Roses transcend their genre's worst tendencies. Hey, I was really just kinda being a jerk, hoping it would be sorta funny. To each his own!

Also, let it be known that I am not prepared to defend Kiss across the board.

DrAwkward wrote:I'm sticking up for hair metal on a message board affiliated with Shellac. This rules.

Salut!

Matt larcombe wrote:Let's hope Axel dies before it get's out.

From what Ive read, it sounds like that's the only way it will be released.

additionally, the production on appetite for destruction is far less glossy than that on poison etc... less trebly, less plastic-y.

sidenote -- poison's "look what the cat dragged in" would be totally face-slaying in the grimy hands of 87-88 gnr.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:1. You get to see a picture of Axl_Dragon. He sort of looks like Ron Howard, too.

That's totally uncool, dude.

I won $10 from my roommate by betting him that the new GnR album would not be released in 2003.

I bet him double or nothing the next year. This year he's wised up.

Look, everyone...he says it's a very COMPLEX record. get off his back.

DrAwkward wrote:

placeholder wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:Even for those of us who were into hair metal back when (and still have a soft spot for bands like Poison and Warrant), Guns 'N' Roses was operating on a far superior plane to other so-called "hair bands." I don't know whether or not it pays to go into detailed explanations as to why anything off Appetite for Destruction is light-years ahead of anything off Open Up and Say...Ahh!, because if you weren't into it back in the day, you probably won't take the time to go back and rediscover the albums.

I have had this "Guns 'N' Roses were better than other cock rock bands of the time" discussion with my girlfriend on a few occasions, and I just don't see it. I was a kid in the mid-to-late '80s, and I liked whatever cock rock was popular. I certainly enjoyed G'N'F'n'R's Appetite for Destruction immensely when it was released, but I just can't listen to it now. I suspect that nostalgia plays a huge part in my continued ability to enjoy '70s Kiss albums, but I listened to my old Appetite... cassette fairly recently, and I just cannot see why people want to judge them less harshly than all the other manufactured cock rock of the day.

Does wearing black spandex instead of pink spandex make G'N'R's albums more reputable and/or gritty than, say, enuff Z'Nuff's or Britny Fox's in retrospect? Possibly!

I fear any explanation would be lost on me, as I probably just don't get it or something. Cock rock is cock rock! Except '70s Kiss!

It could very well be an aesthetic thing, because while i love me some KISS, that band put out a whooooole lotta shit songs.

G'N'R's non-single album tracks (from Appetite--it should be noted that i more or less consider the Use Your Illusion records bloated disasters) are bluesy, gritty, loud, and far beyond any non-single tracks by Poison (except maybe "Back to the Rocking Horse" off Open Up..., because that song's super catchy). It's pretty clear to me that G'N'R were pulling their influences from a wider swath of rock music than most hair bands were (i think it's safe to say that most hair bands were into KISS, Van Halen, and Aerosmith, and if you were Whitesnake, you maybe dug a little Zep, too, but that's it. G'N'R, however, had a bass player from the Seattle punk scene, fer crissakes).

Also, i have a problem with any broad dismissal of any musical genre. There's quality stuff everywhere you look...some genres just have a lot more shit to them than others. But dismissing all cock rock (except KISS!) as crap is just short-sighted.

I'm sticking up for hair metal on a message board affiliated with Shellac. This rules.

not only that, but from a purley technical level, Axl was just a better singer than eveyone in the genre and slashes guitar playing was totally different than any of the other people around that time... most glam rockers we playing a million notes a minute, where slash would just milk a few, you could tell he could shred but chose not to. And they simply upped the level of violence, even the "ballads" on the first record sound violent (sweet child, which I would hardly call a ballad) you can draw a direct line from them to the Stone in influence, the only other Hair band you could maybe do that with is Cinderella...

According to that link on the first page, Axl and I have the same favourite book!

Disclaimer: Don't read the rest of this post. After finishing it I realised none of it is interesting to anyone but me. And even I'm quite bored now.


I'll always have a soft spot for GNR because they were my first love. I wasn't into rock music at all, probably not any music. Then, just before my 14th birthday, I had a week off school and spent a lot of time watching the music channels (there were only 2 then!). The all-request channel was called The Box and it played all these Guns and Roses songs over and over. The more I watched the more I realised "Hey, I really like this!" So I went back to school the next week and asked my dumb as a fucking housebrick friend if I could borrow his GNR albums.

I started asking him all about them. Just finding out their names was fantastic. It was my first experience of discovering something outside the mainstream (a 13 yr olds mainstream anyway, ie. Kylie Minogue and NKOTB) and these crazy characters were called Slash and Duff and Matt. W Axl Rose! What a strange and enigmatic name! What a confontational tough guy for a 13 year old to be enamoured with.

Within a few weeks my friend was writing GNFR on my knuckles and introducing me to the "rocker" kids who had leather jackets. Or denim jackets with patches sewn on. Or those German army jackets that were popular at the time. I fantasised about growing a beard and wearing a kilt. I daydreamed of the time I could be on stage and go upto the girls I didnt like at school (who would for some reason be in the front row of the concert) and scream It's such a pity that you're....such a bitch!

I asked for a guitar for Christmas and told my mom I was growing my hair. The hair growing was traumatic as I had a sort of mullet for a while which earned me the nickname "helmet head". This I didn't need because I was already picked on for my rampant acne and my habit of taking jokes too far. But it didn't matter now because I could go home and listen to "Get in the Ring" and headbang my anger out.

Everything was great. GNR were the dogs bollocks. I was a new person. I liked loud, heavy, obnoxious music. I was a certain type of person! People would now describe me as "a rocker".

Then, just a few months later, I was watching the music channels again. This song called Smells Like Teen Spirit came on.

Guns and who? Wear a kilt? Fuck off. Guitar solos? Pssh.

Still, 13 years later, put Mr Brownstone on and I'll get the same shivers I got when I was 13. But I guess from the nostalgia rather than the revelation.