This really doesn't fit with the "general discussion" forum, given that it does cover more nerdly ground, so here it is - please bear with me.

To each and every user of a computer, who values their ability to freely use these great calculators in whatever manner they choose, please visit the following link and and tell this Linux vendor what applications you would like to see ported to linux. They are a relatively large corporate entity, and I don't believe for a moment that they give a shit for the individual - obviously they only care about their financials - but their clout can be used to make free (as in speech, not beer) software more prevalent in the world, and I think this is a profound net good for all of us.

Even if you don't use Linux, would you consider using it if your favourite program ran on it? If so, please visit

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tip/16646.html

and tell them. Even if you never intend to run linux on your computer, please help propagate an environment in which data can travel transparently from point A to point B. This is good for you. If nothing else, it will let Steve Jobs and Bill Gates know that this is an important principle.

Disclaimer: I am a big advocate for Linux use, which my post history will hint at. I do have an agenda - I believe that the desire to earn money can dangerously infringe on human freedom, when unchecked.

Please give a shit - many thanks.

You do realize that in the history of computing, Novell was what you are rallying against? Can you say Netware?

I'm big on open source and linux, don't get me wrong, just be carefull who you throw your support behind

ju

Thanks for the comment ju

Yes, I do not like, nor advocate, anything to do with novell, with one exception.

The computing world doesn't care what I think. The computing world will take into account what novell thinks however, and if novell can be used in this role to further the role that open-source software plays in this world, then I'll be happy. You know how sometimes you have to side with a bastard because they're the only bastard who can solve a problem with a nastier bastard?

For me, this is a strictly "political" endorsement of something novell happen to be doing.
Frankly, I wouldn't care if it was George Bush himself running this poll - there's a greater good here that needs to be supported.

Speaking of Bush, and here's an example of the significance I feel software transparency wields - ponder this simple hypothetical question:

What if all voting machines in the USA had to run open source software and be open to audit from any and all sources? What effect might this have had on the last US election? What effect might this have had on the wider world?


I'm not saying novell are nice guys, I'm saying that I care about this -

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle ... temID=9350

Novell and Linux and Mr. Stallman and his absolutism aside;

skinny honkie wrote:had to run open source software and be open to audit from any and all sources? What effect might this have had on the last US election? What effect might this have had on the wider world?

Mr. Honkie, in my opinion, you just brought up THE biggest turd in the American punchbowl. If I can make any significant changes to my work situation this year, it will be to free up time to help raise awareness of the desperate need the states have to legislate an immediate switch to open source for all voting applications.

Diebold...Windows...No physical artifact of a vote. I'm sorry, that just can't be allowed. (And I think I know how to explain that to the public.)

We need standardized open source voting apps with published and on-screen displayed checksums and source available at every polling station. We need a physical audit trail for every vote and receipt following vote. We need FEC or local tech teams that audit polling places much the same as we have District Attorneys doing the same (at least we do in Illinois). We need permanent outbound half-duplex communications with each machine sending its core checksum to integrity monitoring stations.

Nobody takes seriously the idea that electronic voting should be dumped. I think it should, but I don't see how to un-ring that bell. So a serious effort must be undertaken by the open source community and all others concerned with the integrity of voting operations to scream like hell about narrowing the gigantic potential for abuse of proprietary electronic voting systems.

Do you know who is working on something like this now?

-r

Do you know who is working on something like this now?

-r

In terms of software, hardware, or screaming like hell? Generally, no, except for the software side of things, but with a few qualifiers. I can put you in touch with someone who might be able to assist if you PM me an email addy. It would depend largely on what you have in mind.

> The computing world will take into account what novell thinks

No. This isn't 1992 any more. Through the 1990s, Novell had a lock on a lot of systems, and they got fat and careless. Treated customers like dirt. (Shareholders too: just try to read their annual report online.)

When other network systems appeared, sysadmins switched, even when the new stuff was not as good. (MS networking still isn't where Novell was in 1994.) Novell changed their tune, even called ME (I only ever had 2 Novell servers) to find out what they should be doing. They changed their tune, but nobody cared.

As a deep-pocket unix vendor, Novell is worth lobbying. But don't expect them to get the message, or hear it correctly, or have more than minimal impact on the larger unix community, or on the commercial vendors who have grown fat on Win/Mac products.

PRR wrote:> The computing world will take into account what novell thinks

No. This isn't 1992 any more. Through the 1990s, Novell had a lock on a lot of systems, and they got fat and careless. Treated customers like dirt. (Shareholders too: just try to read their annual report online.)

When other network systems appeared, sysadmins switched, even when the new stuff was not as good. (MS networking still isn't where Novell was in 1994.) Novell changed their tune, even called ME (I only ever had 2 Novell servers) to find out what they should be doing. They changed their tune, but nobody cared.

As a deep-pocket unix vendor, Novell is worth lobbying. But don't expect them to get the message, or hear it correctly, or have more than minimal impact on the larger unix community, or on the commercial vendors who have grown fat on Win/Mac products.

No, I disagree, politely. I don't have the depth of experience with novell that you evidently do - you know what you're talking about, but we're talking about different things. Have you looked at the link I provided?

I don't mean in a sense that they're formative on the industry like they were in the 90's, when they were a primary shaper of the landscape, for better or worse.
I mean that if Novell provide Adobe (for example) with proof that 100,000 linux users really want Photoshop running natively on their machines, Adobe will mull over that potential $30 million dollars, which would be almost pure profit as the development costs (straight porting) would be comparitively low, and they will possibly do just that.
And should a major desktop workstation product like photoshop become available for the GNU/linux platform, it will serve to make Free/open software more prevalent in the world.
I'm counting purely on possibilities, which I feel are absolutely worth pursuing. They involve no outlay of money, no risk or threat, and the only effort is the two minutes (on dial-up) needed to fill out their poll. I am not placing blind faith in novell to Do The Right Thing.
I think it is possible that they may inadvertently Do The Right Thing whilst seeking additional revenue. I am hoping that the waving of enough potential dollars in front of each of these companies will bring this about. Money, or just the potential of money, is the only mechanism of influence over companies like these. Using this mechanism to serve human interests is a nice irony.

With regard to their influence on the unix world - I can't make a fully informed argument, so I won't. But I will offer the observation that in the past two years, here in NZ, they have gone from providing less than 1% of server systems (and 0 desktop) in government departments, to being the second largest vendor of operating systems after micro$oft, mostly off the back of SuSE. I think it is possible they could influence the unix world quite strongly.


Edit: I think in a nutshell that it's worth placing a free bet on longshot odds. The cool thing is that the more people that place the free bet, the greater the chance of winning.


.

Just to clarify a few points for people who aren't necessarily au fait with this topic:

You do not need to buy novell kit to give bill gates and steve jobs the finger.

Novell are not the point of this thread - it is incidental, but oddly fortunate, that they have provided this poll for linux users. The point of this thread is the poll itself. Please fill it out

Linux is not owned by novell. It is not the product of a company or private, for-profit organisation. It is free for anybody to use for any purpose. Anybody may examine the code that comprises an open-source program to see how it runs. It is possible for anybody to modify GNU/linux source code any way they wish.

edited for grammar.

i must say i'm happy to see this brought up here. linux audio has come a long way in the last few years. linux audio apps are what got me to finally start using linux. i use linux for everything non audio related. the day i can use waves in muse & ardour, i'll be in linux daw land... for now the DSP available for said linux apps is sub par. i'm more interested in a ladspa port of the waves software. that i'd be happy to pay for.