when I was really young, I watched either a movie or a documentry on dobermans where an un-attended doberman jumped out of this cage and mauled this little girl on a swingset.
I was scared of dogs until yesterday. whew!

Doesn't this come down to whether or not you believe (or some might say, have chosen to accept) that some animal behaviors are entirely genetically hardwired? Not that cultural influences can't be used to modify or suppress them, but in my version of reality, pit bulls have been genetically purified to lock in aggressive traits that have nothing to do with who owns them or how they are raised.

A good friend of mine has a pit mix (with shar pei (sp.?), another fighting breed) that is a sweet, lovely, gorgeous dog. I love dogs a whole lot, by the way.

I would never bring a child or another dog near my friend's dog. My biological knowledge that its genes could kick in at any time and it could kill that other animal at will, without me being able to do anything about it, overides any perception I have about the "sweetness" of the pit mix.

I don't believe that the issue at hand here is the temperment of the breed. Dogs have individual personalites, some better than others. The overall breed temperment only applies to well bred dogs. Most of the fucktards out there with bad Pits are not registered breeders doing their best to maintain proper disposition and pedigree. The Pits that often cause trouble are mis-bred and mis-raised.

Aside from the general arguement as to the psychology and temperment of the breed, which can be argued without ever arriving at resolution. I think the real issue with the breed is their physiology, and how that makes them dangerous no matter what their temperment.

It cannot be argued that if one of these dogs does snap, that they do not inflict a great deal of damage on whomever they attack. That is what makes them a dangerous breed. The physiology of the jaw, head, neck, and body are built with great strength to do the most damage as quickly as possible. No doberman, shepard, or lab is built like this. A Beagle will occaisionally get pissed off and bite too, but won't do a fraction of the damage because it's not built/bred to do that kind of damage.

I think it's foolish to argue about everyone's personal experience with sweet tempered Pits, when the temperment is not the issue. The issue is that the breed's morphology makes a flesh tearing killing machine. That is what makes this dog and undesireable breed to have in communities and neighborhoods.

Yeah, a lab may bite, but he's not going to take your face and leg off in less than 30 seconds!

geiginni wrote: The physiology of the jaw, head, neck, and body are built with great strength to do the most damage as quickly as possible. No doberman, shepard, or lab is built like this. A Beagle will occaisionally get pissed off and bite too, but won't do a fraction of the damage because it's not built/bred to do that kind of damage.

Taken from an interesting site I found via Google:

The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of Pit Bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any [other] breed of dog. There is absolutely not evidence for the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier, says Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia (from the ADBA booklet, ìDiscover the American Pit Bull Terrier.)

and also...

No studies have been conducted to prove which breed has the strongest bite pressure. The very few tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several breeds showed PSI to be considerably lower than some wild estimates that have been made. Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geoprahic conducted a comparative test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE, measuring in with a bite of 320 pounds per square inch of pressure.

More info about Pit Bull myths available from the site itself:

http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

Interesting. Thanks for the info to clear that one up!

Also, remember that the woman in France who just had the face transplant? Her face was taken off by a Labrador Retriever.

John W. wrote:
More info about Pit Bull myths available from the site itself:

http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

It irritates me to hear people discussing animals as though they were slightly less intelligent humans in animal bodies. The author of this site seems to have difficulty understanding the differences between how a human's brain works and how a dog's brain works. All kinds of human characteristics get attributed to animals whose brains are working on a far more primitive level.
I don't think this is uncommon, but it doesn't lend a lot of credibility to the author's arguments.
Also, the distinction between "aggressive toward dogs" and "aggressive toward people" is not that meaningful. People tend to accompany dogs. If their dogs start getting torn to shreds by another dog, people tend try to protect their pet. At that point, they are the victim of a dog attack. That it was originally directed toward another dog isn't really the issue, if your concern is human safety.

The Kid wrote:All kinds of human characteristics get attributed to animals whose brains are working on a far more primitive level.
I don't think this is uncommon, but it doesn't lend a lot of credibility to the author's arguments.

Could you please note an example of this from the text? I'm not seeing it. Also, the point being made about 'aggression towards other dogs' is that there are many other breeds that people have no problem with and they are just as aggressive towards other dogs as Pit Bulls.

John W. wrote:Could you please note an example of this from the text? I'm not seeing it. Also, the point being made about 'aggression towards other dogs' is that there are many other breeds that people have no problem with and they are just as aggressive towards other dogs as Pit Bulls.

For some reason that site won't let me copy text.
But the section "temperament," for example, includes a discussion of the "character" of pit bulls, and how dedicated they are to the protection of their "loved ones."
I do not believe that dogs have "character" or "loved ones" as we would understand those terms.
I'm not trying to trash or praise pit bulls. It just bugs me when people attribute human traits to animals.

pit bull bit my niece (4 years old) on the face. A four year old with facial scars now. It breaks my heart.

So yeah.
Crap. Complete and total utter crap.