A lot of rap music features the words "bitch" and "ho" to casually describe females. I like (good) rap music. I realised I had started to just completely and conveniently ignore the problem of this. I have become desensitised to rappers using these words.

The only justification I have heard or can really think of is that, like, this is how these guys "actually talk". But that doesn't seem to hold much water.

I realise it sells records, I get that. But what do ya think about it? I mean, it feels like a really obvious thing to bring up, and kind of futile and makes me feel like charlton heston or something. But I think that's part of the problem. Why should I have feelings of being "anti-liberal" because I am uncomfortable with these people happily spouting this shit all over their records?

What do the good people of this forum think?

I think most rap music is ridiculous in the first place, and I don't listen to much of it.

i'm glad you can dismiss a whole genre so lightly.

for my part, hiphop has the largest range of quality of all the music i listen to. lots of hiphop is absolutely ludicrous shite, but equally, some is incredible, and as worthy as any other kind of music. (for example, dj shadow or cannibal ox)

I don't keep up with rap that much anymore either, but wanted to mention the song "Caroline " by Outkast which says the word bitch a bunch of times but is a great song anyway. I know girls who like this song and don't get offended by the use of the word bitch in the context of the song. As far as guys routinely calling women bitches, that's messed up to me but maybe some people grow up hearing that all the time so that's how they talk. You could make the argument that any self-censorship on the part of the rap guy would make the song fake, but they probably don't talk that way to their grandmothers. Is that fake? A lot of rap seems to be about what a badass you are and some people associate cussing with being tough so I think the tough talk is here to stay in that genre, bitches and all. It gets old.
Also, don't forget that some girls use the B word a lot too. As in "Girl X is SUCH a bitch!" "I know! Did you hear what she said to Girl Y?" (repeat)

'roses,' the outkast song, is a joke. isn't the issue the virulent use of the word 'bitch' or perhaps 'ho?'

i think really either men or women can be 'bitches.' among enlightened users of the term, gender specificity is no longer an issue.

'ho,' in my experience, is only really applied to people who are in fact promiscuous and may therefore be accurately described as such. well, perhaps 'slut' would be more accurate, but it's harder to rhyme things with 'slut.'

now, 'asshole,' when was the last time you called a woman an 'asshole?' never. there's a gender-specific putdown for you.

but it's harder to rhyme things with 'slut.'

WHAT!
i'ma bust a nut,
in your butt,
cause you can't keep that thing shut,
bitch you such a slut.

punch you in your gut,
your throat's gettin cut,
you a bitch and a mutt,
my rhymes are stuck in a rut,
i'm rappin up like king tut,
let's play putt putt,
i live in a hut

YO, PEACE!

toomanyhelicopters wrote:

but it's harder to rhyme things with 'slut.'

WHAT!
i'ma bust a nut,
in your butt,
cause you can't keep that thing shut,
bitch you such a slut.

punch you in your gut,
your throat's gettin cut,
you a bitch and a mutt,
my rhymes are stuck in a rut,
i'm rappin up like king tut,
let's play putt putt,
i live in a hut

YO, PEACE!

And, lest we forget, Eddie Murphy's "Boogie In Your Butt." Excepting the song's spoken "comedy" bits between verses, that ENTIRE SONG rhymes with slut.

Pickin' Boogers,
CG

run joe, run wrote:A lot of rap music features the words "bitch" and "ho" to casually describe females. I like (good) rap music. I realised I had started to just completely and conveniently ignore the problem of this. I have become desensitised to rappers using these words.

The only justification I have heard or can really think of is that, like, this is how these guys "actually talk". But that doesn't seem to hold much water.

Pretty lame justification. I don't know anybody that talks in iambic pentameter or rhyming couplets. People make choices as to how they represent themselves to the public, and I make choices on who gets my money.

running joe wrote:I realise it sells records, I get that. But what do ya think about it? I mean, it feels like a really obvious thing to bring up, and kind of futile and makes me feel like charlton heston or something. But I think that's part of the problem. Why should I have feelings of being "anti-liberal" because I am uncomfortable with these people happily spouting this shit all over their records?

I hate the 'b' word - I never use it. Part of the reason for that is because it is so accepted and it's yet another way for society to keep women in their place. If women are constantly reminded of their bitch status, then they can never rise above it (and hopefully they'll use it on themselves and become their own worst enemies.

lee wrote:I know girls who like this song and don't get offended by the use of the word bitch in the context of the song.

Exactly.
I don't give Wu-Tang, NWA or anyone else my money if they offend me. There's nothing PC about that, it's my choice as a consumer (perhaps my only choice anymore).
I'm fine with my PE, DJ Shadow, Blackalicious, J5, De La Soul, Roots, etc., thanks.

ok 'roses' really smell like poo-poo but it's still a cool song and not just a joke. I bring it up because the context of the song makes the use of 'bitch' cool and funny, also seemingly not offensive to girls. Other uses of 'bitch' and tough-guy cuss words sometimes come off as just abusive, excessive and like "who cares?" like the Lenny Bruce routine Fuck fuck fuck fuck,etc. it loses it's meaning. Sometimes it works in a song but it can become just like this standard wallpaper that shows up in every rap song and it's boring. But like I said I haven't been keeping up with new rap music.

solum wrote: hiphop has the largest range of quality of all the music i listen to

Well, that's called sampling.

I think I hate hiphop more and more everyday. Now there are a few gems that I'll always cherish (De La's Buhloone Mindstate is unreal and is a perfect record from end to end, and Nation of Millions and blah blah blah...) but I find underground rap just as stagnant as mainstream nowadays. Just some idiots talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and then whoochawhoochawhoochawhoochawhoochaCOMPTON.

I've already made amends with the fact that these dopes will keep using bitch and ho because of a limited vocab (although I do enjoy about 6 or 7 of the NWA straight outta compton record). However, what drew me into it as a kid was clever wordplay and now its just rehash after rehash and records are full of so much filler that I can't stomach it anymore. blug.

Faiz