is fantasy or at least if a group is that powerful the casual citizen isnt going to deduce their methods and membership from the random ramblings on the internet.
But its equally incorrect to dismiss specific conspiracy theories such as the JFK assassination or RFK with a casual psychological explanation the common people need to believe that a powerless individual could not wreck such havoc on the nation.
This leads to a nation or press that doesnt answer questions that beg to be answered. For one Dan Rather should have been fired when it was discovered that yes Kennedy's head didnt move violently forward as he described to the nation after viewing the Zapruder film in a private showing.
I admire Chomsky's work on the organic self censorship of the media but also believe he needs to adjust for the allowance that sometimes the government takes a more active role in shaping the media output.
And as far as an intellectual to read that explores areas that may breed a free-floating conspiracy in the future I would recomend Peter Dale Scott.
The illicit drug trade is a swamp that can produce unholy alliances between government intelligence operative and criminal gangs.
The best theory I have developed on JFK is that the herion trade played a key role in the formation of the conspiracy both on a funding basis and giving Trafficante access to talent in Europe especially OAS agents like Michael Mertz who could organize a professionally hit. With the help of roque intelligence agents like David Morales- the Mafia could now have the expertise and the ability to frame US intelligence by using one of their assets as a patsy.
I dont think JFK assassination produced a permanent cabal that is controlling events after the 1968 period but I also dont discount conspiracy theory if the facts dont seem to jibe with the official government story.

How many people here have had multiple interactions with multiple multi-billionaires?

:raises hand:



I had a friend in DC whose parents worked for NSA. And whose grandparents were Masons! I kept trying to talk this friend into giving me some of the Mason paraphernalia they found when going through the grandparents' personal articles after they died (how it was discovered), but no dice.

I love conspiracy theories! Not because I necessarily believe there is one or five or ten people steering the world (though it wouldn't surprise me if the folks way up on top did get together sometimes and have conversations over a game of golf, or some cigars and liquor that costs more for a glass than joe 6-pack makes in a week) but because it's just plain stupid to think that people with massive amounts of money and power don't manage wide-sweeping control systems that are totally fucked up. Look at it this way... if you can pay the smartest folks on the planet $5 or $50 million a year to do XYZ, there's a damn good chance those people are on your payroll. If you can pay dictator XYZ $50 million a year to let you do whatever it is you're looking to do in his country, or you can hook him up with kick-ass weaponry via your company that makes kick-ass weaponry, that dictator is probably on your payroll. Don't you think there are at least a *couple* evil geniuses out there with massive bank and massive will to power?

I remember the time when we were working on a project for one of these multi-billionaire cats, and this guy whose title was "project coordinator" (he was basically this guy's slave-boy) was unavailable because he was off at some mine in Africa, scoping out the stone that was going to be cut into gargantuan slabs and shipped halfway across the planet to cover the walls in one of the rooms of this $20 million house. I just drove past that house this weekend, to see how it looked from the outside. It's beautiful. You'd never guess it cost more than like $5 million to build. I also know some funny stuff about that house, like the fact that he has a special 1-megawatt power feed, and beside that he has a gigantic, GIGANTIC diesel generator in the sub-basement that can power the house quite well if the city's power system fails. And that there's an entire section of the house that is known to be totally illegal by Chicago building code, and as such was listed on the blueprints in fallacious ways. That stuff is fact. As for conjecture, how much ya wanna bet somebody with the city was paid off at some point? Or rather, how many people with the city do you think were paid off? Zero?

The security system for that house is hilarious. First of all, when it's in lockdown mode, the only way in is through the all-concrete garage. There is an armed guard, 24-7, behind bulletproof glass inside that garage. You will never get in that house, seriously! The owner was SO paranoid (way more than a conspiracy theorist, honest!) that he has pressure sensors installed on the roofs of the neighboring buildings, so if anyone attempted to get onto his roof (which again, was covered in pressure sensors) via one of the neighbor's roofs, they'd know before the people made it to his roof.

A totally different rich nutcase in chicago (burbs) also has a 24-7 armed guard, preventing people from entering his driveway. This particular guy was deathly afraid that any one of the members of his company's union (who he knew he was fucking) would come and try to kidnap or kill his family. It's because of this nutjob that I know two interesting things... first, that night-vision goggles work exceptionally well when you have IR-spreaders all over your property (he insisted on this), and second, that Lockheed was going to win the contract for the JSF. This was maybe a year before the decision about that contract was even made. Whoops! That's firsthand knowledge I had of a conspiracy. A government contract was decided, and this guy knew about it (totally illegally!) like a year ahead of time. I was given a (totally illegal, as I was informed at the time) nice inside stock tip, to buy Lockheed for this very reason... this was when the stock was at like $20 a share, in 2000, right at that giant dip where it looked bad for Lockheed.

I love a good conspiracy. And I would say that while you can go ahead and equate a devout "conspiracy theorist" with a nutjob, if you deny the sheer probability that conspiracies abound, you are living in a dream world! People with unfathomable amounts of money and power do exist, and they have proportional control over all manner of things. Government contracts are of course one example. Yeah, people get brought down for this kinda stuff. What percent of the time is it a patsy, and what percent is it the real kingpin? I'm gonna guess that it's the real kingpin maybe once in a million billion nevers.

Anyways...

Tenet stepped down cause he wanted to spend time with his family, remember? HA! Who's even running the CIA right now? What's the latest that the CIA is up to? Somebody lay out for me a good description of all the covert ops the CIA is in the midst of right now, and the source for all those funds. Just kidding!

BTW, here's a link that proves the Bush admin is lying their asses off about the War On Terror. Israel still uses the IDF, right? Here is a link to the IDF's website, where they braggingly outline a covert operation they undertook in 1968, to blow up commerical aircraft belonging to Arab airlines, that were parked at a commercial airport. TOTALLY illegal to attack civillian targets, to blow up commercial aircraft because you're mad about something, right? Terrorist activity, right? But don't we continue to give money and weapons to Israel, instead of forcing the IDF to disband, because they are a known terrorist organization?

The Israeli Defense Force wrote:Results

In Operation Gift a total of 14 planes belonging to Middle East Airlines (MEA) and Air Libea were destroyed (two Boeing 707; three Commet C - 4; Caravel; Viscount planes; and 1V.C. -10). Estimated damage was 42 - 44 million dollars.

Explanations, please.

Scott wrote:because it's just plain stupid to think that people with massive amounts of money and power don't manage wide-sweeping control systems that are totally fucked up

Yes, I think. It seems to me like there is perhaps the finest of lines between what we are calling 'conspiracy theory' and various other critiques of power/ethics/money, etc.

You know how Skull & Bones is always talked about in these hushed tones, often in the middle of a conspiracy theory? There are statistics thrown around about the high percentage of initiates who hold positions of power in the political / business worlds, but why is it surprising? These are the 'most fortunate sons' attending a top university -- of course they are in the boys' club of power!

So... I'm not sure what I'm saying here, other than

1) I agree with Scott that it's not hard to imagine that the rich & powerful 'conspire' all the time for personal gain.

2) This discussion has become unnecessarily heated (Andrew L., you crazy bastard! After all the crazy shit you've posted over the years that could be readily dismissed as the rantings of a 'nutjob' (I, sir, do not dismiss them as such), you seem a little too free to throw that term (more or less) back at our friend Clocker Bob).

3) Clocker Bob, you should start a thread that consists of links that you have gathered your information from, as well as a list of "Who's Who of Global Capitalism".

OK. Carry on.

Andrew L. wrote:Bob,

You've written a lot on this thread. How hard would it be to list two or three authors who have written on the subjects at hand, and whose take is similar to your own, or at least been of value to you?

I respect what you have to say on matters like these, Andrew L., but I don't see why Clocker Bob needs to list authors. Even if he comes up with authors, what does that prove?

Mr. Binary wrote:

Andrew L. wrote:Bob,

You've written a lot on this thread. How hard would it be to list two or three authors who have written on the subjects at hand, and whose take is similar to your own, or at least been of value to you?

I respect what you have to say on matters like these, Andrew L., but I don't see why Clocker Bob needs to list authors. Even if he comes up with authors, what does that prove?

It's not about proving anything. It's just that since Bob won't spell out his theory of world history and power, he could at least point people toward a couple people (like, say, two people) who take a similar view as his own.

If Bob wanted me to list some authors I've found interesting and persuasive on such matters, I could certainly do so.

I once thumbed through this in a coffee house on Commercial Street, Vancouver, Canada. It went nicely with a caffe latte.

Andrew L. wrote:

Mr. Binary wrote:

Andrew L. wrote:Bob,

You've written a lot on this thread. How hard would it be to list two or three authors who have written on the subjects at hand, and whose take is similar to your own, or at least been of value to you?

I respect what you have to say on matters like these, Andrew L., but I don't see why Clocker Bob needs to list authors. Even if he comes up with authors, what does that prove?

It's not about proving anything. It's just that since Bob won't spell out his theory of world history and power, he could at least point people toward a couple people (like, say, two people) who take a similar view as his own.

If Bob wanted me to list some authors I've found interesting and persuasive on such matters, I could certainly do so.

To respond to andrew L. and superking at one time ( and to also commend the outstanding contributions by Scott; I thought this thread had run a ground, but as usual, you carry major firepower ):

I will list some authors and web sites that I have digested along my search to interpret the behind-the-curtain voodoo of capitalism, but the posts will come more slowly; I had about the least productive work week that I can risk last week because of how much time I spent on-line, and I can't continue that pattern. If you don't see anything substantial before Wednesday, it's not my critics here that I'm avoiding.

I will begin damage control before I even credit my sources.

These are not eminent mainstream journalists I will be referring to. If their books are published, they're not published by houses you recognize by name. By the nature of who they endeavor to expose, they aren't welcome in those circles- and also because some of them write horribly.

The major caveat is this:

If you want to explore central banking and industrial cartels and the Illuminati, your web searches are going to lead you to people with axes to grind. A big part of some of their axes is made up of Jews, Zionists, False Jews, Ashkenazi Jews... it's intense.

If I didn't want to just stop the car, I had to try and pull valid information from the minds of hate-filled people. I think it can be done. I think hate is an inextricable emotion from the mind of a conspiracy theorist the same way that a homicide investigator hates the murderers. The question is how badly does the hate distort the lenses of your glasses?

So, Andrew- if you're going to look at the info that I post and seek not to discredit the info but to discredit the sources as anti-semites, well I saw that coming, as dumb as I am. I won't respond to those attacks.