Roundly ignored poll that I posted on AIPAC / The Israel Lobby:
http://www.electrical.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15910
Noam Chomsky responds to the "Israel Lobby" article:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9999
Gabriel Ash comments on the "Israel Lobby" article:
Two academics from the Chicago University Political Science Department and the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University shocked the tender sensibilities of the chattering classes when they published a damning study of how and to what extent “the Israel Lobby” influences U.S. foreign policy.
The paper has been dissected and criticized, often hysterically, by both left and right, and by both the mainstream and radical media. The hysteria is in itself telling, and I hope to address it in a separate article. But first, I wish to examine the Mearsheimer and Walt (M&W) argument in its own right. My purpose is to offer an antidote to the paralysis that befalls significant portions of the U.S. left whenever the Israel Lobby is mentioned. To do so, I will criticize M&W’s paper, but also reconstruct its argument within a coherent leftist framework. The M&W thesis is that,
[T]he overall thrust of U.S. policy in the [Middle East] region is due almost entirely to U.S. domestic politics, and especially to the activities of the “Israel Lobby.” . . . no lobby has managed to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from what the American national interest would otherwise suggest.
The paper summarizes the extraordinary level of monetary and diplomatic support the U.S. extended to Israel over the last few decades. M&W succinctly demolish the twin arguments that are frequently cited in order to justify and explain U.S. support for Israel, the ‘strategic ally’ argument and the moral argument. Why then does the U.S. support Israel?
Full article here:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr06/Ash18.htm
Let us remember the words of Santayana and Pete Townshend...
From the Haaretz daily, 2-18-03
Sharon says U.S. should also disarm Iran, Libya and Syria
By Aluf Benn
"Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said yesterday that Iran, Libya and Syria should be stripped of weapons of mass destruction after Iraq. "These are irresponsible states, which must be disarmed of weapons mass destruction, and a successful American move in Iraq as a model will make that easier to achieve," Sharon said to a visiting delegation of American congressmen.
Sharon told the congressmen that Israel was not involved in the war with Iraq "but the American action is of vital importance."
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages ... mNo=263941
From the Jerusalem Post, 3-10-06:
"The United States has until now not done enough to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, a senior Defense Ministry official has told The Jerusalem Post while expressing hope that Wednesday's referral of the Iranian issue to the United Nations Security Council would prove to be effective.
"America needs to get its act together," the official said. "Until now the US administration has just been talking tough but the time has come for the Americans to begin to take tough action."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 9395573059
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
42Iran signs its own death warrant
The proposal to establish an Iranian oil bourse first surfaced under the presidency of Khatami. The idea languished for months, until last month when President Ahmadinejad again took up the initiative and pressed for action. Iran's goal is to create a bourse where oil is priced in the euro, to compete with the dollar pricing of oil that now dominates the major international oil exchanges, the New York Mercantile Exchange, NYMEX and London's International Petroleum Exchange, IPE.
Pricing oil transactions in the euro will create more of a psychological impact. Iran's real goal is to shift the world away using the dollar as the major currency of foreign exchange holdings. This little understood market has been key to our ability to sustain our economic growth, despite the unprecedented budget deficits of the Bush administration.
Last edited by clocker bob_Archive on Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
43TheManWhoFelltoEarth wrote:...
Yes but the politial climate seems to suggest that the combined strength of Iran, Syria and Hamas indicates the path of WWIII.
"Combine strength"!!! The NYPD could take those guys on and still have room for Jordan.
Over-hyped, over-rated, but if W gets his way, over-there.
Having said that the Iranians should not be allowed to get nukes. Having one religious fanatic with his finger on the trigger is more than enough. Yes George, I'm talking about you.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
44electrons wrote:Sarnival of Couls wrote:What is it to you? I loathe <Christian Right> fundamentalists on principle who have nothing but contempt for <Women's rights, homosexuals, public education, voluntary euthanasia, premarital sex> as a whole. I have no desire to visit the <people who want to die in comfort, impregnated rape victims, San Francisco, the Middle East> and it is my prerogative to not give a shit about them if I want to. I <pray> hard, <believe I live in a theocracy> and do what ever I want to.Andrew L. wrote: Hey, Sarnival of Couls, what places on earth do you give a shit about?Carnival of Souls wrote:Also, Islamic, fundamental extremists bother me more than anything else.
How many, sir, Islamic fundamentalist extremists do you encounter on a daily basis? I am a teacher; I see elementary students every day. What bothers me more than anything else is seeing disadvantaged, minority, low-SES children struggle daily to compete with suburban white kids. More than anything else.
I apologize if you live in Afghanistan and try to make it a more Western-friendly place daily, as a career. Otherwise, you need to turn off Fox News - it make you so brainwashy.
No offense sir but what drivel are you babbling on about? Disadvantaged minority children? I mean huh? When you have something constructive to say I will answer it accordingly. Until then, don't attempt to make fun of me or spout nonsense which has nothing today with the topic at hand.
Point of contention. I don't watch "Fox News" because I don't have cable and with all of my bills I couldn't afford it anyway.
Many countries in the Middle East (If you aren't aware) are mired in corruption and built on foundations executed by religious fanatics. I have criticism with any religion taken to the extreme with Islamic Fundamentalists sort of taking priority now. Don't give me some kind of rhetorical spin to easily fit you're own political agenda as a result of events in Iran right now. If you actually lived in some of these countries under such repressive conditions you would have a different perception of things. I have a problem with Islamic headcases who have a propensity for blowing things up, openly denying the Holocaust and abhor Western Civilization on principle. A friendly caveat for you. Don't try to openly embrace something you don't know or it will destroy you.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
45Carnival of Souls wrote:No offense sir but what drivel are you babbling on about? Disadvantaged minority children? I mean huh? When you have something constructive to say I will answer it accordingly. Until then, don't attempt to make fun of me or spout nonsense which has nothing today with the topic at hand.
I think the point being made is that it seems a little odd that Islamic lunatics bother you "more than anything else", when there are serious issues of social justice and inequality in your own country, i.e. shouldn't it bother you more that the richest country on earth also has some of the worst poverty and lowest social mobility, racial injustice, healthcare, education levels... etc. Just usual stuff.
I'm not joining in here, just clarifying.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
46Gramsci wrote:Carnival of Souls wrote:
I think the point being made is that it seems a little odd that Islamic lunatics bother you "more than anything else", when there are serious issues of social justice and inequality in your own country, i.e. shouldn't it bother you more that the richest country on earth also has some of the worst poverty and lowest social mobility, racial injustice, healthcare, education levels... etc. Just usual stuff.
I'm not joining in here, just clarifying.
Serious issues of social justice and inequality are continuing to persist in the United States and elsewhere. I am not disputing that fact. My current concern right now though is the Middle East and the impact it has on the West as a whole. I didn't want to get derailed from the topic at hand which interests me the most at the moment.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
47Carnivals of Souls, you don't give a shit about the middle east. And yet you worry about it and find it interesting.
That's confusing.
Carnival of Souls, did you not give a shit when Iran was struck by an earthquake some two years ago?
Do you give a shit about Israel?
Do you care for anything besides the direct vicinity of your town pump?
These are honest questions. Tough talk on a message board is easy. And to be frank I think you do give a shit.
That's confusing.
Carnival of Souls, did you not give a shit when Iran was struck by an earthquake some two years ago?
Do you give a shit about Israel?
Do you care for anything besides the direct vicinity of your town pump?
These are honest questions. Tough talk on a message board is easy. And to be frank I think you do give a shit.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
48sunlore wrote:Carnivals of Souls, you don't give a shit about the middle east. And yet you worry about it and find it interesting.
That's confusing.
This is very simple. I dont' care what these fundamentalists do in their own boundaries. When the pervasive influence beings to sweep into other countries with a viable threat. Yeah, I have a problem with that.
sunlore wrote: Carnival of Souls, did you not give a shit when Iran was struck by an earthquake some two years ago?
As far as compassion goes for the ordinary citizens. Sure. It is the government and military I don't like.
Except for the strictly dogmatic ones. They are okay over all.sunlore wrote:Do you give a shit about Israel?
sunlore wrote:Do you care for anything besides the direct vicinity of your town pump?
What kind of snide remark is that? What are you exactly doing to better this world? Are you making efforts of you're own to change anything in Iran? Action speaks louder than words. If you are really going to do something, I'm all ears.
sunlore wrote:These are honest questions. Tough talk on a message board is easy. And to be frank I think you do give a shit.
No I am the honest cynic, the guy who lives in the desert waiting for rain.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
49Linus Van Pelt wrote:(I put this in the USA thread, and I'm putting it here too.)
Okay, when a person gets an "ass-kicking," maybe it means maybe he learns a lesson, gets a little negative reinforcement, maybe some humility, a couple bruises, whatever. When a country gets an "ass-kicking" it means lots of human beings become not alive anymore. Please, no "ass-kickings" for countries, please. It is very easy to forget about the part where people who were alive are made not alive, by calling it by the quick and easy name of "ass-kicking," but please remember what this really is. Also, giving a country an "ass-kicking" doesn't really do any good in the long run, usually. There are some exceptions. In WWII, the axis was actually trying to take over the world, and they did get a well-deserved "ass-kicking," and that was good, but please remember also that Germany wouldn't have even tried such a thing if they hadn't gotten such an "ass-kicking" a couple decades previous. Trouble in the middle east? Communism in China? Instability in Africa? Terrorist attacks against the West/the USA? You can trace it all back to some time somebody decided, hey, somebody needs an "ass-kicking."
I don't know for sure what the solution is, but I know an "ass-kicking" is just more problem.
As usual, Linus, fucking beautifully stated.
Does Iran need an ass kicking?
50Carnival of Souls wrote:sunlore wrote: Carnival of Souls, did you not give a shit when Iran was struck by an earthquake some two years ago?
As far as compassion goes for the ordinary citizens. Sure. It is the government and military I don't like.
And who's asses exactly do you think will be kicked? Who's asses will always be kicked, everywhere?
I agree with you on most points, except for the cynic part. Hey, Carnival of Souls, you're a compassionate cynic! No mean feat, I don't think!