Band Technique: Playing to a Click
11I couldn't imagine a band like Helmet playing with a click track.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
12Playing to a click is about as helpful as driving with a cop behind you. Let's get tensed up and overthink the simplest maneuvers! [Arbitrary authority and all that . . .] When you fuck up, they're both gonna tell you the same thing: "Stop! You suck!"
Good drummers don't need a click, and it will ruin a marginal drummer.
In the studio, I can see its utility in a passage of music without drums. Otherwise, definite CRAP.
Good drummers don't need a click, and it will ruin a marginal drummer.
In the studio, I can see its utility in a passage of music without drums. Otherwise, definite CRAP.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
13It totally depends on how complex your music is. Or how you write your songs.
In the past with my group the singer/piano player and I(guitar) wrote songs by recording them. Often times this called for a click track because we ddidn'thave a drummer with us and most of the time we didn't use the basic 4/4 time. However the more we understood where the emphasis was for each of our parts the click began to make us sound unnatural.
I think for musicians with bad time it could help teach them the variations of a beat. For more advanced or intuitive musicians it may not be necessary.
But Steve is right. Most of the time it becomes detrimental to the recording process because it is so hard to be exactly in sync with a machine and will drive musicians crazy. It Could end up costing alot of money and tons of studio time and in the end produce a flat product.
In the past with my group the singer/piano player and I(guitar) wrote songs by recording them. Often times this called for a click track because we ddidn'thave a drummer with us and most of the time we didn't use the basic 4/4 time. However the more we understood where the emphasis was for each of our parts the click began to make us sound unnatural.
I think for musicians with bad time it could help teach them the variations of a beat. For more advanced or intuitive musicians it may not be necessary.
But Steve is right. Most of the time it becomes detrimental to the recording process because it is so hard to be exactly in sync with a machine and will drive musicians crazy. It Could end up costing alot of money and tons of studio time and in the end produce a flat product.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
14I particularly dislike a 'live rock band' with sequencers / tapes where you see the drummer with headphones on, staring at a fixed point concentrating on the click so hard and playing flat and boring and rigid and not locking with the other musicians. Actually I don't think I have ever seen anything really exciting or interesting done this way.
Playing drums myself in the studio, I have found a few rhythms and songs you can start up a click and just sit on things straight away and as Mr. Keane so...interestingly describes above actually use the rigidity as a base to explore from. You don't 'hear' the click playing it or listening back to it, and it can improve the end result for drummers like me who tend to speed up like fucking top-fuel dragsters.
Most other songs you are listening to it and coming back to it and thus playing like crap. I have found both as drummer and engineer you tend to know instantly whether it's going to work or not, so at least you can Make That Decision Quickly and move on.
Playing drums myself in the studio, I have found a few rhythms and songs you can start up a click and just sit on things straight away and as Mr. Keane so...interestingly describes above actually use the rigidity as a base to explore from. You don't 'hear' the click playing it or listening back to it, and it can improve the end result for drummers like me who tend to speed up like fucking top-fuel dragsters.
Most other songs you are listening to it and coming back to it and thus playing like crap. I have found both as drummer and engineer you tend to know instantly whether it's going to work or not, so at least you can Make That Decision Quickly and move on.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
15At first I thought this thread was titled "playing to a CHICK".
When I was in recording school there was this 40 year old guy who was repeating the course to get upgraded on the digital technology he didn't have the first time around. The funny thing is, he is stuck in the 70's and he would try and serenade "chicks" in the hallway with these crappy 5 minute acoustic guitar ballads that he wrote himself.
Playing to chicks is stupid. Crap.
Playing to clicks? Depends on the situation. If you're building a MIDI/analog song than you kind of have to be in perfect time.
When I was in recording school there was this 40 year old guy who was repeating the course to get upgraded on the digital technology he didn't have the first time around. The funny thing is, he is stuck in the 70's and he would try and serenade "chicks" in the hallway with these crappy 5 minute acoustic guitar ballads that he wrote himself.
Playing to chicks is stupid. Crap.
Playing to clicks? Depends on the situation. If you're building a MIDI/analog song than you kind of have to be in perfect time.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
16Jordan wrote:I couldn't imagine a band like Helmet playing with a click track.
Yeah, but now Stanier is playing in Battles, which revolves around loops, which means that the tempo is static. He might as well be playing to a click track. Battles is great either way.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
17I play drums and guitar in a band, and I also record the band's material. I use Cubase to record, because I can't afford a bunch of functional analog gear. With Cubase, playing with a click makes it *very* easy to cut and paste drum parts in the same way I would punch in a guitar line or whatnot. You still have to be very careful about cutting and pasting drums because they can sound very artificial if you do it wrong. I usually limit it to 3 or 4 "takes" per song just so I don't go insane trying to patch everything together.
Also, the tempos of our songs run the gamut between "fast" and "ridiculously fast" and being able to set the click to an exact metronome reading allows us to have songs that are all pretty fast, but don't sound all the same, since the beats and tempos are mixed up a little bit.
Could I make it through the songs without the click? Certainly. Could we punch and cut and paste without the click? For sure. But I rather like the feeling that I am playing everything "right" and the finished product generally comes out pretty solid. At this point I'm pretty used to playing with a click in the studio. Never live though, that would be too much of a pain in the ass.
That said, I've seen plenty of drummers just get freaked out by a click. There's enough stress in a studio situation that sometimes that little bit extra can be enough to ruin a take. If I'm recording a band that isn't my own, I leave it to them if they want one. If they've never used one before, I don't try and mess them up with it.
I voted NOT CRAP because for me, it works. I have no preconcieved notions that it works for everyone though.
Also, the tempos of our songs run the gamut between "fast" and "ridiculously fast" and being able to set the click to an exact metronome reading allows us to have songs that are all pretty fast, but don't sound all the same, since the beats and tempos are mixed up a little bit.
Could I make it through the songs without the click? Certainly. Could we punch and cut and paste without the click? For sure. But I rather like the feeling that I am playing everything "right" and the finished product generally comes out pretty solid. At this point I'm pretty used to playing with a click in the studio. Never live though, that would be too much of a pain in the ass.
That said, I've seen plenty of drummers just get freaked out by a click. There's enough stress in a studio situation that sometimes that little bit extra can be enough to ruin a take. If I'm recording a band that isn't my own, I leave it to them if they want one. If they've never used one before, I don't try and mess them up with it.
I voted NOT CRAP because for me, it works. I have no preconcieved notions that it works for everyone though.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
18i know a band who plays live to a click.. their guitarist has a midi-guitar and a shitload of midi gear on stage. i assume they have elements in their music played by a computer hence the need for sync'ing up to a perfect metronome.
still, i'd rather they add a 4th member who could 'play' the computer... call up samples as needed with a midi controller or something.
so i guess i'm still against clicks
still, i'd rather they add a 4th member who could 'play' the computer... call up samples as needed with a midi controller or something.
so i guess i'm still against clicks
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
19sndo wrote:i know a band who plays live to a click.. their guitarist has a midi-guitar and a shitload of midi gear on stage. i assume they have elements in their music played by a computer hence the need for sync'ing up to a perfect metronome.
still, i'd rather they add a 4th member who could 'play' the computer... call up samples as needed with a midi controller or something.
so i guess i'm still against clicks
That sounds like one of the most boring shows I would ever have to sit through, and I'm bettign the music matches it. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone you're friends with here, but oh my god that sounds lifeless and unnecessary. A solution in search of a problem.
Band Technique: Playing to a Click
20Dylan wrote:sndo wrote:i know a band who plays live to a click.. their guitarist has a midi-guitar and a shitload of midi gear on stage. i assume they have elements in their music played by a computer hence the need for sync'ing up to a perfect metronome.
still, i'd rather they add a 4th member who could 'play' the computer... call up samples as needed with a midi controller or something.
so i guess i'm still against clicks
That sounds like one of the most boring shows I would ever have to sit through, and I'm bettign the music matches it. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone you're friends with here, but oh my god that sounds lifeless and unnecessary. A solution in search of a problem.
Actually, yeah, they are really boring. For a time they had a jazzy female singer but she left and they were soley an instrumental band noodling away. I only saw them because it was one of those shows with like 8 bands.