I am in the political science department at Indiana. I don't remember the context in which Dane County arose, but I lived in Madison for several years in the late 90s.

I am mostly discouraged by the fact that there's no job market save for a select few people. Basically, 0.00001% of the people in this field get a PhD and land a tenure-track job at a good university. The rest of us end up at schools with two directional adjectives in the name (i.e., "Southwestern Missouri Tech").

Indiana is a "good school" and the undergrads are already appallingly stupid. Given that I'm likely to end up at a much, much lower quality school......I just don't think I can handle the teaching. I don't even want to imagine how bad the students are at third-rate state schools. The idea of teaching Intro to American Government to 200 freshmen at Southern Alabama U is just about enough to make me swallow my tongue.

So the problem is that I started doing this with the expectation of a certain set of outcomes that is apparently not realistic. I could have some sort of fulfilling career if I were really good - which I'm not - but it's more likely that I'll struggle to get even a shitty job. Then I can look forward to rotting away with a 4/4 teaching load at some school that no one has even heard of. Alcoholism and growing bad facial hair are inevitable in such a situation.

ginandtacos.com wrote:I am in the political science department at Indiana. I don't remember the context in which Dane County arose, but I lived in Madison for several years in the late 90s.

I am mostly discouraged by the fact that there's no job market save for a select few people. Basically, 0.00001% of the people in this field get a PhD and land a tenure-track job at a good university. The rest of us end up at schools with two directional adjectives in the name (i.e., "Southwestern Missouri Tech").

Indiana is a "good school" and the undergrads are already appallingly stupid. Given that I'm likely to end up at a much, much lower quality school......I just don't think I can handle the teaching. I don't even want to imagine how bad the students are at third-rate state schools. The idea of teaching Intro to American Government to 200 freshmen at Southern Alabama U is just about enough to make me swallow my tongue.

So the problem is that I started doing this with the expectation of a certain set of outcomes that is apparently not realistic. I could have some sort of fulfilling career if I were really good - which I'm not - but it's more likely that I'll struggle to get even a shitty job. Then I can look forward to rotting away with a 4/4 teaching load at some school that no one has even heard of. Alcoholism and growing bad facial hair are inevitable in such a situation.

before i respond to the above, lemme ask you this: what do you think is good about grad school? are you learning new things in your given field, or are you just gearing up to indoctrinate newbies? basically, what do you stand to gain as far as your understanfing of your given field is concerned?

ginandtacos.com wrote:I am in the political science department at Indiana. I don't remember the context in which Dane County arose, but I lived in Madison for several years in the late 90s.

I am mostly discouraged by the fact that there's no job market save for a select few people. Basically, 0.00001% of the people in this field get a PhD and land a tenure-track job at a good university. The rest of us end up at schools with two directional adjectives in the name (i.e., "Southwestern Missouri Tech").

Indiana is a "good school" and the undergrads are already appallingly stupid. Given that I'm likely to end up at a much, much lower quality school......I just don't think I can handle the teaching. I don't even want to imagine how bad the students are at third-rate state schools. The idea of teaching Intro to American Government to 200 freshmen at Southern Alabama U is just about enough to make me swallow my tongue.

So the problem is that I started doing this with the expectation of a certain set of outcomes that is apparently not realistic. I could have some sort of fulfilling career if I were really good - which I'm not - but it's more likely that I'll struggle to get even a shitty job. Then I can look forward to rotting away with a 4/4 teaching load at some school that no one has even heard of. Alcoholism and growing bad facial hair are inevitable in such a situation.

Wow, I could have written that post. May I plagiarize you?

I am finishing a doctorate in philosophy. I know many others who have. Most of them have tenure-track jobs. I am here to tell you that it is possible.

That said, these jobs are not all in desirable places. The scenario you depict is bleak, and true. It is why I will not be going on the job market. I say finish your doctorate. You might kill yourself in 20 years (or sooner) if you don't. Then find something else to do with your life. That is my plan.

Tipcat, I think is, correct. If you've gotten this close, then giving up will likely eat at you more than sticking this last bit out. At least that would hold for me.

Since you're in a field that's increasingly dominated by quantitative analysis, there are opportunities out there for you outside of academia. If you were doing numbers studies with county level data, there's gotta be something you can do for either a city, county, or state government. Don't want to work for the gov't? There are all sorts of political analysis jobs outside of government. Barring that, if you can run a regression, there's something you can do. You'll be able to pay bills because you've learned a good skill.

That said, I'm fairly certain that Tipcat's teachers would say much the same as mine have to me: Yes, the quality of your average undergraduate student isn't much to get you out of bed to teach in the morning, especially if you wind up at an academic backwater. But that only makes the rare few that are a cut above that much more precious and enjoyable to teach.

Hang in there.

alex maiolo wrote:My wife - twice.
She's going for the PhD starting in the Fall.

...and she married *me*
Don't ask me how that happened.

-A

How did that happen?

yea, it was awesome. i earned my master's degree in piano performance. about three months later, i lost the ability to play piano due to a weird mix of tendonitis & carpal/ulnar tunnel syndrome. yahoo!

Yes.

my good friend from college - got his PHD in political science, then landed a tenure track job. For various reasons, it did not work out and he is at a "think tank" in the DC area now. I don't think he has many regrets - other than being too naive about departmental politics at his university job. I think about half of the guys he was in the program with finished. And about half of them got teaching jobs. None at top-flight research universities. The rest wound up at consulting/think tank sort of places, or with the government.

When he got the job, the scenario sounded pretty bleak. Every year there were like 30 jobs in his field, and hundreds of applicants. He was lucky to get interviews, and he was dreading getting an offer from North Texas or summat. Where he went sounded fine at first, although it turned out not to be such a hot college town. Then after 6 years of hard labor, it went to shit because he had pissed off some guy 4 years prior.

I think you have to be willing to go whereever the job is - whether it's Idaho or Kansas, or Texas, or Alabama or Pennsylvania or Buffalo. And you have to have an understanding and supportive spouse.

Most of the time, I'm glad I went to law school.

Good luck. It is a long road, but it will take you somewhere.

tipcat wrote:Wow, I could have written that post. May I plagiarize you?

Go for it....apparently everyone's doing it these days.

My wife did in English.

One of my old roomates has three MBSs or whatever it's called when you have some Masters...es in a science...thing.