Back in 1999, I saw their video for "Mia" on MTV's 120 minutes and I got that first album, Point #1, which Steve did a great job on.

I fell in love with the band and that album, mixing Tool-like vocals with Helmet-like riffs but also a lot of simple clean guitar parts that built tension and mood.

Then the band seemed to vanish into thin air, only to appear years later with a major label debut, Wonder What's Next. It was filled with bland Nu metal riffing and vocals that make me embarrassed to even think about it. I start to get a headache really...

Anyway, is anyone as heart broken as I am that some big record company ruined a once, in my opinion, great band? Does anyone think that their "nu" sound is actually good? Did you always hate the band?

....this kind of change in bands seems to happen way too often

Aren't they supposed to be Christian Rock or something? I've only heard their new stuff, and it's junk. C C CRAP

Yeah, their first record reminded me a little bit of Hum. Not crap. Their more recent stuff was the crappiest of crapular crapulence.
The band made this record. Not their label, not their A&R guy, not their "producer", and not the engineer.
CRAP.

Trash talking about a band and/or their world beyond whether or not you like their music is a very sketchy enterprise. I liked Chevelle (the guys) and I think their music is genuine. I can't really ask more of anybody.

Whenever anyone becomes beholden to a monolithic company and is subject to the politics of that situation, I can only feel for them as people. When those interactions have an effect on someone's creative enterprise, it must be a disheartening experience.

This sort of external pressure has repercussions in any band, but as Chevelle are three brothers, there is also a personal burden to carry that cannot be shrugged-off.

I don't know what happened to Chevelle after they left Electrical, other than that they toured with high-profile bands, moved to a big label and made a record that got played on the radio and reflects those circumstances.

Their personalities were gentle, and they were sincere in everything they said. I was rooting for them.

I think something else may play into the circumstances of any artist raised in Christian surroundings. There is a pattern to verbal communication I can recognize in most of the committed Christians I've dealt with (not meaning to generalize, I consider it akin to a linguistic trait, like the lack of articles in Russian or the avoidance of direct contradiction in Japanese): Christians don't tend to speak directly about things that might cause friction. Preachers trying to impress are a special contradictory case, and I'm not talking about them.

This trait of communication can make it difficult to discern a Christian's genuine (unfiltered-by-decorum) feelings in any situation. In recording, it is best to have direct, unequivocal responses to situations: "That bass sound is not going to cut it," "I'd like to do that over," "No echo on the vocal on this one," "Don't change that -- I like it the way it is," "That snare sounds bad."

Most heathens (myself included) don't hesitate to make flat, sometimes contentious decrees. Many will cuss and carry on. Most Christians try to be accommodating -- try to go along, and in so doing can suppress or veil their communication in a way that allows their co-operative nature to be taken advantage-of.

When the seal finally breaks and there is a genuine moment -- an outpouring -- the emotion is often one of disappointment-in-self rather than listen-to-me-you-dick.

I think anyone dealing with this fundamental difference in communication styles is obligated to tread carefully, as there will be no discernable complaints if the session (or tour or business relationship) takes an ugly turn.

What I'm saying is that Christian musicians are at a disadvantage in the music business because they are polite.

This explains why "Christian" businessmen in the music business get away with heinous, exploitative contracts with bands -- they do it politely, and there is a reticence on the part of the bands to ask awkward questions or demand results.

I'm rambling here, but I guess I meant to say all along that I liked Chevelle, and I think that there may be many things at play in their circumstances (about which I know next-to-nothing) that may have been inevitable given they style of music they play, that they are brothers, that they had an opportunity and ambition, that they had been insulated from the conditioning of the underground/independent music scene, and they behaved like Christians.

i still listen to point #1 on a regular basis, and i still enjoy it on a regular basis. their music seems to revitalize the soul and is able to go into that level at many points, which few bands are able to achieve. i have been a listener ever since the album came out, and somehow it hasnt gotten old.
it sounds amazing aswell (complements to steve) and well they are quite good live, or were back in the day atleast. i only saw them once a little after point #1 came out.

i was quite excited when i heard of a new album, and hoped for something of similar quality. at first i was dissapointed with the outcome of wonder whats next but finally was able to look past the ozzyosbourne-esque sound of the album and realize that sometimes a band is pressured into certain things and even if it wasnt pressure, i can respect what the direction they are taking. i cannot deny that i enjoy that album, but i really do hope their upcoming release is more like point #1.

a pie,

revrantMeat wrote:i still listen to point #1 on a regular basis, and i still enjoy it on a regular basis. their music seems to revitalize the soul and is able to go into that level at many points, which few bands are able to achieve. i have been a listener ever since the album came out, and somehow it hasnt gotten old.

Yeah, I feel the exact same way, and it sounds like Steve does too. It plays so well over and over, and really just sounds so honest and full of emotion. It only gets richer with time. It may be my favorite record Steve has produced, next to the Breeder's Pod and Low's Secret Name.

Even though Wonder What Next doesnt reach that level, Im going to be optimistic and say that theyll use their bigger status now to make a great record and get the word out to everyone.

steve wrote:Trash talking about a band and/or their world beyond whether or not you like their music is a very sketchy enterprise. I liked Chevelle (the guys) and I think their music is genuine. I can't really ask more of anybody.

Whenever anyone becomes beholden to a monolithic company and is subject to the politics of that situation, I can only feel for them as people. When those interactions have an effect on someone's creative enterprise, it must be a disheartening experience.

This sort of external pressure has repercussions in any band, but as Chevelle are three brothers, there is also a personal burden to carry that cannot be shrugged-off.

I don't know what happened to Chevelle after they left Electrical, other than that they toured with high-profile bands, moved to a big label and made a record that got played on the radio and reflects those circumstances.

Their personalities were gentle, and they were sincere in everything they said. I was rooting for them.

I think something else may play into the circumstances of any artist raised in Christian surroundings. There is a pattern to verbal communication I can recognize in most of the committed Christians I've dealt with (not meaning to generalize, I consider it akin to a linguistic trait, like the lack of articles in Russian or the avoidance of direct contradiction in Japanese): Christians don't tend to speak directly about things that might cause friction. Preachers trying to impress are a special contradictory case, and I'm not talking about them.

This trait of communication can make it difficult to discern a Christian's genuine (unfiltered-by-decorum) feelings in any situation. In recording, it is best to have direct, unequivocal responses to situations: "That bass sound is not going to cut it," "I'd like to do that over," "No echo on the vocal on this one," "Don't change that -- I like it the way it is," "That snare sounds bad."

Most heathens (myself included) don't hesitate to make flat, sometimes contentious decrees. Many will cuss and carry on. Most Christians try to be accommodating -- try to go along, and in so doing can suppress or veil their communication in a way that allows their co-operative nature to be taken advantage-of.

When the seal finally breaks and there is a genuine moment -- an outpouring -- the emotion is often one of disappointment-in-self rather than listen-to-me-you-dick.

I think anyone dealing with this fundamental difference in communication styles is obligated to tread carefully, as there will be no discernable complaints if the session (or tour or business relationship) takes an ugly turn.

What I'm saying is that Christian musicians are at a disadvantage in the music business because they are polite.

This explains why "Christian" businessmen in the music business get away with heinous, exploitative contracts with bands -- they do it politely, and there is a reticence on the part of the bands to ask awkward questions or demand results.

I'm rambling here, but I guess I meant to say all along that I liked Chevelle, and I think that there may be many things at play in their circumstances (about which I know next-to-nothing) that may have been inevitable given they style of music they play, that they are brothers, that they had an opportunity and ambition, that they had been insulated from the conditioning of the underground/independent music scene, and they behaved like Christians.

Interesting.

Would you care to offer an equally critical analysis of the Judaic mentality?

ytrehalf wrote:Interesting.

Would you care to offer an equally critical analysis of the Judaic mentality?

Sure. They know suffering and they can always find Chinese food.

What are you getting at?

Point #1 is a fine rock album. Steve did a bang-up job, it's a very honest sounding record, and that my friends is a rare and wonderful thing, regardless of whether you like the music or not.

As for the follow up... good grief*. Same problem as what happened to Helmet, signed to a major the pressure is on to "sell".

But just because a band built up a solid fan and was selling well on an independent level, filling 1000 seaters, the record making a meger profit, does by no stretch mean that the band are going to are good to increase sales by the same percentage as the capital investment the record company makes in the band.

Steve's infamous "The Problem with Music" article is spot on. Tje cold reality of the music business is that just because your band suddenly has a capital injection, it does not mean you are going to sell more records, not matter how much exposure you get. A band like Chevelle or Helmet were popular with a niche market of an average size, making the music more "accessable" will more than likely just alienate the people were buying your records when you were on an indie, without increasing your overall sales. Prime example; how many people here have Meantime, but never even considered buying Size Matters?

"Better" production, more "radio friendly" songs and a huge marketing budget will not result in more record sales. It will mean you are in debt. If you want to get rich playing music, play in Hootie and the Blowfish. Play music because you love doing it, if you expect to get rich... go to law school.

Rant ends.

* What the fuck is that "UUUmmmmmmfffff" sample over the drums on "Comfortable Liar"?

steve wrote:

ytrehalf wrote:Interesting.

Would you care to offer an equally critical analysis of the Judaic mentality?

Sure. They know suffering and they can always find Chinese food.

What are you getting at?

If you would have people believe that this "critical analysis" of the Judaic mentality is equal to the critical analysis of the Christian mentality that you've offered here and elsewhere, I think that the point is obvious.