old heros selling out
12It's really hard to justify selling your art to a company. I mean, I would never tell someone in a struggling band that they're sell-outs because i don't know their situation and that would be a shitty thing to say. But if your music career has done well and you've been at it for years, it's just sad. I love it when people try to defend these artists, because no matter what they say, it just sounds weak. You just want to say "shutup and take the money already". But if you're in a struggling band, and you take some cash for your song, you better never sing an anti-corporate song or a song about "the man". 
U mean, u guys are gonna sell us stuff with INDIE ROCK too??? KEWLL! LOLZZ!!!!!!
6-4-3 wrote:I guess some of you may consider me as a small part of "the man", but it's worth noting that most writers/art directors at Ad Agencies are always looking for unique, off-the-dial songs to use in thier commercials, not Led Zepplin for Cadillac or the Pontiac, Hootie and the Blowfish ads that have recently been puked out.
U mean, u guys are gonna sell us stuff with INDIE ROCK too??? KEWLL! LOLZZ!!!!!!
old heros selling out
13It's a problematic issue for most artists with any integrity. I always think of the Bill Hicks thing (I believe he was specifically targeting Jay Leno) about artists/celebrities selling out. I find it a small comfort that he added the disclaimer of "Imean, if you're a struggling actor, I'll look the other way...".
In short, I think principles in this matter (and a lot of principles in general, actually) are a luxury of the financially secure.
In short, I think principles in this matter (and a lot of principles in general, actually) are a luxury of the financially secure.
old heros selling out
14Just out of curiosity, what was the name of your band? Did you by chance come to Chicago to record the song in question?
we are kahoots. yes we came to record in chicago. are you the jordan who worked at the studio? if so you were the best person there. thanks for your help. hope we didn't get you fired or anything with our refusal to play to a click track and lack of overdubs.
the best quotes at the session was the producer guy who showed up at 6:00 pm after we were finished recording the song. "what the fuck, no overdubs?" and as we were leaving "don't worry we'll mix the shit out of it"
it was a fun trip. after the session we all went down to the splicing block, had a few beers and did some networking.
-e
old heros selling out
15sorry i guess i put that whole thing as a quote. i am a computer master.
-e
-e
old heros selling out
16Hey, Ikilled...
Your attempt at sarcasm underscores my point. That, like it or not, music (Indie, Pop, sinatra, etc...) will always be used to "sell" stuff you don't need, and if it's not your music, it'll be someone else's. Period.
That's the way it is and always will be.
In my case, I'm a huge indie music fan. I listen to off-the-beaten-track bands that you won't find at Virgin. I read about these bands, I pay money for these bands' albums, I pay cover charges and ticket prices to support them when they come to town and - when given the opportunity - I choose their music to present to clients over the Justin Timberlake's of the world... if for no other reason than to know that they could use the cash more than a Aerosmith would.
Advertising is a fact of life. Without advertising, there is no TV, there are no Magazines, there are no Newspapers, there is no Radio and there are no Britney Spears and Blink 181 tours.
I was attempting to illustrate that there are some of us out there always looking/listening for the unique when a spot calls for clutter-breaking music/visuals. Ask Jay Farrar, an indie-artist, if he feels bad for supporting his family by selling (for a boatload more than $20,000, I'm guessing) an instrumental off of one of his self-produced and distributed albums to Volkswagen. (FYI: this is not the artist I used in my example above).
While you sarcastically dismiss my motives, I'd pay a million pecos to see what you do (assuming you're in a band) when offered $20,000 for 30 seconds-worth of a song you and your band wrote. Elisha and many bands like hers understand a great opportunity when it comes knocking. We all know how far creative integrity gets you when it comes time to pay for a week in the studio, or a 6" sub from Subway while you're on the road.
I was only trying to shed light from the "darkside", Ikilled. Not try to fan the flames of the embittered ignorant.
Your attempt at sarcasm underscores my point. That, like it or not, music (Indie, Pop, sinatra, etc...) will always be used to "sell" stuff you don't need, and if it's not your music, it'll be someone else's. Period.
That's the way it is and always will be.
In my case, I'm a huge indie music fan. I listen to off-the-beaten-track bands that you won't find at Virgin. I read about these bands, I pay money for these bands' albums, I pay cover charges and ticket prices to support them when they come to town and - when given the opportunity - I choose their music to present to clients over the Justin Timberlake's of the world... if for no other reason than to know that they could use the cash more than a Aerosmith would.
Advertising is a fact of life. Without advertising, there is no TV, there are no Magazines, there are no Newspapers, there is no Radio and there are no Britney Spears and Blink 181 tours.
I was attempting to illustrate that there are some of us out there always looking/listening for the unique when a spot calls for clutter-breaking music/visuals. Ask Jay Farrar, an indie-artist, if he feels bad for supporting his family by selling (for a boatload more than $20,000, I'm guessing) an instrumental off of one of his self-produced and distributed albums to Volkswagen. (FYI: this is not the artist I used in my example above).
While you sarcastically dismiss my motives, I'd pay a million pecos to see what you do (assuming you're in a band) when offered $20,000 for 30 seconds-worth of a song you and your band wrote. Elisha and many bands like hers understand a great opportunity when it comes knocking. We all know how far creative integrity gets you when it comes time to pay for a week in the studio, or a 6" sub from Subway while you're on the road.
I was only trying to shed light from the "darkside", Ikilled. Not try to fan the flames of the embittered ignorant.
old heros selling out
17run joe, run wrote:It's a problematic issue for most artists with any integrity. I always think of the Bill Hicks thing (I believe he was specifically targeting Jay Leno) about artists/celebrities selling out. I find it a small comfort that he added the disclaimer of "Imean, if you're a struggling actor, I'll look the other way...".
In short, I think principles in this matter (and a lot of principles in general, actually) are a luxury of the financially secure.
Hooey. Turning down money you don't need is a matter of preference rather than principle. Your principles aren't even in question unless sticking to them means you face some consequences.
Most of us are inclined to behave a certain way, as long as it doesn't cause us any discomfort or risk. To do the thing you know you should do, despite suffering its consequences, is what distinguishes deeply held principles from superficial preferences.
This excuse, that one needs the money, is used to justify lying, stealing, cheating and worse. It is also used to justify less critical decisions.
Do what you want, but don't make the excuse that honorable behavior is only for the rich. They are tested far less often than the rest of us, so it becomes immaterial whether or not they hold strong principles. Their convictions will never be put to the test, and that is not the same thing as behaving honorably.
I don't have a problem with a band selling its songs for whatever use, if they are not demeaned by the association. In most cases, I would be, so I usually decline, but that is a matter of preference. I wouldn't say it is a test of my principles.
Behaving in an honorable way -- not taking advantage of other people -- is what counts.
steve albini
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
old heros selling out
18I don't consider getting paid to be selling out. Bands sell CDs, t-shirts,etc.
If a band were to make a drastic change in their musical style,
in an effort to cash in on a current trend, then you might have a
case of selling out.
For example: Couch Flambeau allows All-State Insurance to use
"We'll Go Through The Windshield Together" in a spot for auto
insurance. This would not be selling out.
If, however, Couch Flambeau started releasing Britney Spears-style
teeny bopper disco songs, the Sell-Out Finger could be pointed.
If a band were to make a drastic change in their musical style,
in an effort to cash in on a current trend, then you might have a
case of selling out.
For example: Couch Flambeau allows All-State Insurance to use
"We'll Go Through The Windshield Together" in a spot for auto
insurance. This would not be selling out.
If, however, Couch Flambeau started releasing Britney Spears-style
teeny bopper disco songs, the Sell-Out Finger could be pointed.
old heros selling out
196-4-3 wrote:While you sarcastically dismiss my motives, I'd pay a million pecos to see what you do (assuming you're in a band) when offered $20,000 for 30 seconds-worth of a song you and your band wrote. Elisha and many bands like hers understand a great opportunity when it comes knocking. We all know how far creative integrity gets you when it comes time to pay for a week in the studio, or a 6" sub from Subway while you're on the road.
I was only trying to shed light from the "darkside", Ikilled. Not try to fan the flames of the embittered ignorant.
Listen, I am not talking shit about small bands that sell their songs to adveritisng. Like I said, that would be shitty to say because I'm not in their band and I have no idea about their financial situation. But, if a band's music that I enjoyed was being used to make me want to clean my house with Swiffer, I would be disappointed. I can't help it. It cheapens the music, that might sound cliche but it really does. And again, not trying to be a dick, but there are many many bands that have succeeded musically and financially without selling songs to commercials, not that every band has to do that, but don't act like it can't be done. If i were in a struggling band (which i am not, thats why i'm not passing judgement on these people), I would probably want people to hear the music as art, instead of people saying "u guys had the song from the toyota commercial!" because if we never got very popular, we would always be known as the band that wrote the toyata song, instead of a "real" band who someone would actually want to listen on their own time. Now thats how i would feel, but i have no problem with other people doing these things and i wish them goodluck.
old heros selling out
20tom waits adamantly opposes his music being used for commercials and what not, reason is this, doesnt want his songs to be associated with orange juice or sneakers or anything else, because, after seeing one of his favorite beatles tunes used in i think a sunkist add, now he says when he hears it he can only think about crappy orange soda.........and if you havent seen coffee and cigarettes yet, go see it......the waits and iggy pop segment is hilarious................so what are you saying? the drumming on my records suck? so what are you trying to say? im like a taco bell kinda guy? just go see the flick. youll understand.