rayj wrote:
This is a great post, but I have to say that listening to Merzbow in a dark
basement at fairly serious volumes while waving a flashlight around was a
wildly psychedelic experience for me. Under the influence. Wildly.
Recommended to those interested in that sort of thing.

Or maybe something like Hanatarash 5 which is flat out psyche-tastic.

I love a lot of the Freakbeat stuff Alex was on about. So many great
bands in that period. Got a few Turkish & Finnish comps which are
boss.

b

Incornsyucopia wrote:I was going to post a rather provocative post arguing why I think the Grateful Dead were one of (if not) the all-time great psychedelic band, but perhaps with that I should just let you all have at me with your reasonings for the many snide dismissals that have so far in this thread referenced them.

When I have more energy I'll post my reasons why I think so. Till then, have at me!

Stick up for yourself man! If it's a knife fight, bring a gun!
Remember though, there are, like, 25 guys with knives here...

No seriously, defend the Dead all you want. I said that I didn't like their brand of psychedelia because I'm not into the tie-die stuff.

I think there's something both intriguing and comical about dudes telling me to "explore my mind" and that "nothing is at is seeeeeemmmms" which is why I like Paisley Music. Plus, it has a lot of pop elements.

The Dead's lyrics never fit into that category, and thus I found them too precious. Also, I'm not a fan of working with songwriters. No matter how talented Robert Hunter is, getting a guy to write your lyrics is like outsourcing the job to Malaysia because your workers can't do the job.

I do not like their tones. I'm not a "tone guy" but DAMN I think their guitars sound awful.

I have nice things to say about Phil Lesh. He knows music and is generous with his money, particularly to artists.
I cannot, along with his minions, get into his "zone" though.

Which goes straight to Ty's point. Their fans drive me nuts. I don't like the Dead's music, but that's just a matter of aesthetics. I generally find Deadheads, however, to be some of the least engaging people in society today. I can't put alll of my music and lifestyle decesions into one basket like that.

-A

The Turkish psyche in the 70's sounded like a great scene, according to the comps I keep running across. That one guy who built his own 'synths' as a backup band out of old oscillators is absolutely astounding. Unfortunately, there aren't very many recordings from that whole thing, and the existing ones only pretty much hint at what was probably something much cooler...

Incornsyucopia wrote:I was going to post a rather provocative post arguing why I think the Grateful Dead were one of (if not) the all-time great psychedelic band, but perhaps with that I should just let you all have at me with your reasonings for the many snide dismissals that have so far in this thread referenced them.

When I have more energy I'll post my reasons why I think so. Till then, have at me!

There are many reasons to like the Dead. I have heard some early stuff that was pretty rocking.

However, the vast majority of what I hear strikes me as 'country jammin'. I have serious kneejerk reactions against that kind of tone and approach to playing...probably remmnents from my rural upbringing. Plus, the fanbase is largely knobbish...no direct offense intended. I'm way too close to whitetrash to be able to hang with it comfortably....

rayj wrote:The Turkish psyche in the 70's sounded like a great scene,
according to the comps I keep running across. That one guy who built his
own 'synths' as a backup band out of old oscillators is absolutely
astounding. Unfortunately, there aren't very many recordings from that
whole thing, and the existing ones only pretty much hint at what was
probably something much cooler...

Also many countires had these scenes. Check out stuff from
Italy, France, Cambodia, Netherlands, Finland, India, Oz, Kiwi
and there's tonnes of stuff from south & latin america although a
lot of this is more straight beat style but it still rocks.

b

rayj wrote:

Incornsyucopia wrote:I was going to post a rather provocative post arguing why I think the Grateful Dead were one of (if not) the all-time great psychedelic band, but perhaps with that I should just let you all have at me with your reasonings for the many snide dismissals that have so far in this thread referenced them.

When I have more energy I'll post my reasons why I think so. Till then, have at me!

There are many reasons to like the Dead. I have heard some early stuff that was pretty rocking.

However, the vast majority of what I hear strikes me as 'country jammin'. I have serious kneejerk reactions against that kind of tone and approach to playing...probably remmnents from my rural upbringing. Plus, the fanbase is largely knobbish...no direct offense intended. I'm way too close to whitetrash to be able to hang with it comfortably....

I won't comment much on the Deadhead fanbase (though my experience is that at concerts I've been to they're some of the nicest, most helpful, people to make up a concert going crowd I've ever been a part of), but since we're talking psychedelia, the Dead's second album from 1968, Anthem of the Sun is definitely their psychedelic zenith in terms of albums. It's an amalgam of live and studio recordings that at some points gets seriously weird. That it's great to trip to perhaps goes without saying.

I'm off to work, but maybe later today I'll give my more general reasons why I love them so.

Ivan Dobsky wrote:

rayj wrote:The Turkish psyche in the 70's sounded like a great scene,
according to the comps I keep running across. That one guy who built his
own 'synths' as a backup band out of old oscillators is absolutely
astounding. Unfortunately, there aren't very many recordings from that
whole thing, and the existing ones only pretty much hint at what was
probably something much cooler...

Also many countires had these scenes. Check out stuff from
Italy, France, Cambodia, Netherlands, Finland, India, Oz, Kiwi
and there's tonnes of stuff from south & latin america although a
lot of this is more straight beat style but it still rocks.

b

I have the "Princess Nicotine" comp that rocks...Tibetian, I think.

Feel free to post recommendations...there are a ton of these comps out now, and I can't buy them all. The 'weirder' the better, for me.

Ty Webb wrote:I will admit right from the start that I detest The Grateful Dead, so I'm hardly going to offer a sober, reasoned argument.

It's hard to separate this hate from their fans. I'll simply say that I find 99% of their output hollow, infuriatingly fluffy, and just plain weak.

In fact, no single band can encapsulate the all attributes that define bad psychedelia like Grateful Dead. Meandering, long-winded, pointless, ditzy, naive, etc, etc. They're all there in the GD catalogue. "Dark Star", anyone? Bleh.

It always amazes me when I hear this kind of antipathy for the GD and I've heard it a lot. What exactly do you hate about their fans anyways? Deadheads have a bad rep and I really don't understand why. Sure some can be pretty flighty and lacking in much relationship with reality, but then what music scene doesn't have its share of wackos.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion as to their music, but I couldn't disagree more with your list of adjectives. Naive? Fluffy? Hollow? Weak? Ditzy? Pointless? Are we even talking about the same group? I can't believe that you even have more than a passing familiarity with their music besides the hits (Casey Jones, Truckin and, of course, Touch of Grey) and at best a cursory listening to one (of the at least a hundred and probably a lot more) version of Dark Star; a "song" that over the years changed radically under the impression of constant group improvisation.

And that's what was so original and interesting about the Dead that so few other supposed psychedelic bands ever got: the willingness to take risks in not performing with a set list, but to instead try to always realize something new. Sometimes they failed miserably as they themselves always admitted, but that in an age so overwelmingy dominated by pre-fabricated music (even in supposedly "live" situations with real-time pitch shifting devices like the TC Electronics Intonator) a group of popular musicians - by the late 80's playing the largest of possible venues - would have the courage and audacity to try to do things differently by engaging in collective improvisaton to perform music (some of, certainly not all) that has more in common with Stockhausen, Cage and the Darmstadt School than anything that could be conceived of as "pop" should, I think, bear greater appreciation than it has hitherto.

If any of you Dead-haters think you might be able to offer an open mind to a listening of their music, check out John Oswald's Grayfolded; a 2 CD set of pure psychedelia. Truly awesome it is.

I have seen the Dead twice.
Once inside.
Once outside.
Lightning in the distance illuminated the sky. It was the best possible scene that could have been set.

I was bored. I didn't hate it, but I just didn't see what the big deal was.

Their fans have descended on my town like locusts and turned the main drag into panhandle central. They would go into restaurants, take up a booth for a long time, eat, pay in change, and not tip because, like, you know, they didn't have enough. My friends who work on tips really appreciated that. I'm not talking about 3 incidents at a couple of restaurants. I heard the same story from every friend of mine who worked at a small, cheap restaurant.

This is one of the many examples of how a large portion of Deadheads just "expect."
I'm all for community. I'll help anyone who asks, but what exactly are the Deadheads giving back when they panhandle, hitch, install themselves at Pepper's Pizza, etc?
KARMA..maaannnn, karma.

I hate to sound so conservative, because I'm not in any way, but the roving Dead party exists because townspeople have to put up with a net loss, in my experience. We fund their lifestyle.

Plus, the music is weak.

Two words my friend:
Terrapin
Station


Guh....


-A