jesus. did they do it? did we do it? whodunnit? who shot jfk? who shot roger rabbit? americans and unfortunately the rest of the world are getting rode by bush and his cabal of fuckwits. there should be no arguments on internet message boards about this. do something useful and go get one of those guns that the NRA wants you to have, head down to the washington book suppository, do the world a massive favour and shoot george right in his simian face. i'm not normally in favour of capital punishment but i'm willing to put aside my beliefs this one time. how big of me. now get to it.

The South Park episode last night was awesome.

As for the logistics of placing the explosive charges not passing the sniff test.

On the construction diagram above it looks like there about 48 vertical girders in the core structure the conspiracy folks insist must have been cut by charges.

(They consider the notion that the vertical girders were broken up by shearing force of the falling floors an impossibility...some even suggest the wreckage should have slid down these girders like old vinyl records sliding down a tall spindle on an old fashioned record player...leaving the girders standing 100 stories high!)

The conspiracy folks are fond of noting that the girders were "conveniently cut" in approximately 30 ft sections for ease of trucking away. (They ignore the fact that the original girders were delivered as approximately 30 foot sections that were then bolted together).

So let's say this is what happened. Let's call it 100 stories then with charges on every 3rd floor (to cut 30 ft girders). So that's 33 floors with 48 charges per floor (each girder needs its own charge)...or 1452 charges PER BUILDING.

That indeed is 1000's of charges. 1000's of charges that must be firmly attached directly to or around the girder itself, not just located nearby like a hand grenade or something. So that's 1000's of instances of removing wall materials, insulation, avoiding wiring and plumbing, etc etc...and then replacing all of that so the charges can't be seen.

Standard practice would be to wire all of these charges up with timing fuses because the explosions have to happen in sequence...and the conspiracy folks claim they seem them going off in sequence (so called squibs making puffs of smoke out of the side of the building). Running these fuses in an undetected way would be even more difficult yet.

Some have speculated that perhaps the charges were radio controlled. This is vaguely possible, but the charges would require 1000's of individual addresses in some kind of digital radio system...and relying on such a signal inside the core of the building and in the midst of all those girders would be tricky...remember how the firemen had trouble with radio communications?

Anyway, it seems clear to me that 1000's of charges would be needed to do what the conspiracy folks say happened, and I just don't see how the massive work of rigging both towers could have been done without anyone noticing.

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BadComrade wrote:I loved that clocker bob kept saying that gravity "pushes"...

Speaking of thermite and gravity:

If you ever really wanna get back at someone, fill a coke can with thermite, set it on the hood of their car, and sit back and watch as it burns through their hood, then straight through the engine block, and down to the ground.

Not that I've ever done that or anything.

You know...for awhile, some auto manufacturers (Volkswagon, I believe) made magnesium engine blocks. Yep.

I actually did see someone get one of these things to spark, out in hillbilly land. Holy shit. No video, though. That thing was HOT.

Bob, I understand Greenings paper in detail including the math. If you don't understand the math, you can't claim to follow the arguments. You also can't claim to know that the supposed retorts from the conspiracy side cut the mustard. The math and the argumentation are inseparable and one in the same.

Unlike some others, this is not name calling on my part. This is just the way it is. Not understanding the science and the math doesn't make anyone a bad person or even a lesser person. But it does undercut their ability to make claims about this aspect of the dispute.

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clocker bob wrote:Following your argument, the only people allowed to have an opinion on the 9/11 events must have multi-disciplinary expertise in physics, explosives, aeronautics, options trading, cell phone technology, and military defense procedures.

Bob,

I'm not saying that. I'm saying to understand the arguments based on physics and math about the rate of fall and powdering of the tower remains one needs to understand the physics and math used.

If you can indulge me, apparently once again, with the .pdf URL and page number of the relevent graphs I'll try to give them the most sympathetic reading I can and respond here.

(You say it's out therre, so I've apparently lost track of the specific technical responses in the midst of all the other references you've served up. I'd like a chance to be pointed at the focused technical responses to Greening's analysis rather than the summary pronouncements (from either side).

thanks, Phil

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