NOT CRAP. No waffle factor.

Not Crap.

Not crap, but there's a waffle factor of 4. His ideology is faultless, but I don't think he's great as a writer. He is getting better w/each book tho. He recently mentioned the idea of running for office in 2005, 2006. I hope he does it, he'd get my vote if I lived w/in his proposed jurisdiction....

That Rush Limbaugh book was hilarious, but I haven't kept up with him since then. I will give him a Not Crap as a benefit of the doubt.

Oh, I just remembered something. As I mentioned in the Ben Stein thread, Al and Ben are pretty good buddies. Considering how far apart their politics are, the fact that they're able to stay friends speaks volumes about his character.

Sticking to your beliefs without being so dogmatic that you alienate your friends = NOT CRAP.

I'm going to give this some waffle, because although i agree with franken alot, he seems to take part in this "left Vs. right" bullshit too often. Sean Hannity and his fellow right wing cunts are trying to make this election year into one big 'ol football game, us v.s. you. And i think al should just let that shit go. As far as his books go, he's very funny, especially when he's talking about fox news. When he tries to defend clinton and the democrats, i kind of lose interest. C'mon, clinton was a shitty president too. errbody know that.

not crap

Intern_8033 wrote:But if you are republican and it's an educated position, how can you not be a selfish dick?

That would presume that there is only one Republican position, which is obviously not true. Ive no love at all for the Republican party, but there's clearly more than a world of difference between Connie Morella, John McCain, Sam Brownback, and Pat Buchanan. They share very little, but are all Republicans.

The "racist/womanizer" equation is a strawman of horrendous proportions, so I wont even bother with it. Why not throw in Nazi while youre at it? Either way, my ability to have a civil relationship or a friendship with someone who was a Republican would matter very much on that individual Republican's beliefs and almost not at all on the fact of their party membership. Hell, my Dad's a Republican, but he's not on board with all of Bush's bullshit. In fact, I gotta get him on the phone -- he lives outside Philly and I need to make sure he's gonna vote. PA could swing either way.

Even if you're only kind of a Nazi, it's still not so good.

i've met a fair share of hasidic republicans

-noah

Intern_8033 wrote:I was going to say Nazi but I thought racist pretty much covered it.

You do realize that woulda ended the thread, right?

Intern_8033 wrote:I would argue that there is no acceptable republican position, not even John McCain's.

I'm not even sure how to respond to that, except to say that as I understood it we werent so much talking about Republican positions, we were talking about REPUBLICANS. People. If someone is a registered Republican, does that make them implicitly a backer of all that is evil? Of course not, no more than being a registered Green makes someone a good person. You seem to be conflating the two ideas rather badly. A person can (I'm assuming) choose to be a Republican for a variety of reasons and none of them may have anything to do with the current administration or the many things about it and Rs that we all hate. And as much as most of them are infuriating little jingoistic piggies, equating them all with Nazis or racists is just overly simplistic and, I think, wrong.

Intern_8033 wrote:Whether we're bombing Iraqis with high precision weapons or firebombs, we're still bombing them, one isn't O.K.

I am the last person who wants to be forced to be an apologist for the Rs, but last I checked a lotta Dems voted for those bombs too, and stood by, hand on heart, as they were dropped.

Intern_8033 wrote:If someone shits on your face, you don't care if they're a beautiful blonde or a gross guy.

And I cant even begin to guess how this applies to the argument at hand. Are the beautiful blondes or the gross guys the Republicans in this "analogy?" What the hell kinda scat-freak nonsense is this?

Intern_8033 wrote:Even if you're only kind of a Nazi, it's still not so good.

The first totally sane thing youve said. I just dont think, say, that Eisenhower, or McCain, or Morella, are "kind of" Nazis. I dont share much (or even any) of most of their worldview, but the way I see it there's a lotta ground between not agreeing with me and "kinda" Nazism.

Brownback, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Buchanan, though? Totally up for grabs. Brownshirts to the last, near as I can tell.

Intern_8033 wrote:If you identify as a republican, you believe in something that automatically makes you a dick. Maybe? I don't know.

Probably. Odds are yes. But not always. That's all I was tryna say; dont hate groups, people are all that matter.

ikilledfredmertz wrote:I'm going to give this some waffle, because although i agree with franken alot, he seems to take part in this "left Vs. right" bullshit too often. Sean Hannity and his fellow right wing cunts are trying to make this election year into one big 'ol football game, us v.s. you. And i think al should just let that shit go. As far as his books go, he's very funny, especially when he's talking about fox news. When he tries to defend clinton and the democrats, i kind of lose interest. C'mon, clinton was a shitty president too. errbody know that.

not crap

Since when was Clinton a shitty president?

Intern_8033 wrote:So if you know a Republican who is a good person, he is either ignorant or brainwashed regarding some wedge ideology.

I have edited your quotation (for grammar, agreement in number of subject and predicate, and precise meaning) so that we can continue this discussion without me thinking you are an uneducated dick-slap.

I used to have this very problem with people: I see certain identities (say, being a Republican or a Christian or football fan) as being closely linked to positions I find untenable, and in many cases, boorish or hateful (respecively, disregard for the plight of the poor, the notion of damnation, and being thuggish assholes). Those who are on the inside of those identities, whole not ignorant of those positions, don't necessarily hold them as dearly as I hate them.

Christians see their way as an end to doubt about the legitimacy of goodness or moral position -- it provides a basis for them to live their lives, and in their minds, everyone elses lives, toward a more peaceful, loving existence. They think that is more important than the (secondary to them) notion that the rest of the world will be punished if it doesn't go along, and so they are Christians. I see the damage done in its name (and a selfish conceit about not needing anything supernatural in my life) as a mitigator that prevents me from agreeing with them, but they are not necessarily crazy.

Republicans see as a great evil the involvement of the government in their money, especially money they believe they have "worked hard" for. They may also hold principled positions that I disagree with, but are as clear as day to them: abortion is killing babies, crime merits only punishment, and the poor don't need to be treated any differently than the rest of us (they can "rise" to a level of prosperity by their own ingenuity). They believe that clean living, hard work and tradition should be rewarded by the natural accumulation of money, and that interference in that process is degrading to those who strive to succeed for the benefit of those who don't. I find fault in all of these positions, but I believe they can be held by people of principle and great integrity, and are not inconsistent.

Football fans, well... Not everybody is smart or patient enough to love baseball, and I guess it's that or Nascar for them.

I believe I am right about my view of the world because I have seen enough to convince me. Those who have lived different lives have every right to think that they have too, and I am bound to disagree with some of them.

That said, I know of no instance in the United States where the Left Wing has punished great numbers of the innocent to the point of death or prison, and the Right Wing does it all the time. That constitutes a moral difference that I can categorically make: Right-Wingers are driven by an urge to punish, and they care little about the suffering this causes. If you choose to ally yourself with the Right, I will judge you on that basis, but I understand that there are other things that concern you and brought you to that choice.

I will take a principled Republican I can disagree with and respect over a "Free Mumia" asshole who doesn't even know why he's in favor of the things he has taken-on as received wisdom. Not because he is more right, but because he doesn't make me sick to my stomach.