Gramsci wrote:

galanter wrote:When I say I'm an agnostic I'm not talking about any particular historical God. I'm talking about God as a consciousness which is the ground of being. So neither.

But that is a particular historical god, I'm baffled that you can't see the weakness of your position.

Gramsci's right in this. The concept of God-The-Creator or God-The-Everything is a specific conception of a specific God - it's the generalized possibility of a Judeo-Christian style god.

God/s, regardless of god's existence, does not need to be the basis of everything; in fact, a true agnostic has to accept that, in fact, God stands just as good a chance of being plural and less cosmically significant. The noncreator gods of the Greeks, imperfect and squabbling; Hindu gods with fifty billion manifestations as heroes and avatars; little gods like the Shito spirits. All equally [im?]plausible.

If you are going to argue about god based on the idea of a creator-and/or-foundation-of-the-universe (the great turtle?), you have already abandoned actual agnosticism as by doing so you make the claim that you have gnosis concerning what god would have to be like.

bingo.

i should like to talk about something mentioned here. Steve (i think it was) brought up how insulting to the life we have and hold is this idea of an after life. I agree that more often than not the use of such hopes is foul and tasteless. I also agree that most presentations of such hopes come smeared with ideas I couldn't play nice with. But certain painful losses- even those merely imagined- squeeze these dreams up from the depths with or without ideological blessings in some of us. I don't experience the necessity of these shadowy maybes to end in this ugly insulting jam tomorrow shit today style. I feel I betray a part of myself as true as any of the more skeptical appendages if I don't wonder about this. I confess to thinking it would be right if certain beautiful primate stories were remembered by something or someone with such a memory that the remembering can allow a sequel. I will never allow such hopes to smother the fire for every minute of every day we can manage. I feel no mistrust or distance from anyone who suspects these hopes as wishful rubbish. I respect the clear mindedness of the suspicion. But I can't seem to embrace the certainty implied in the manner of the dismisals. Honestly it would feel like telling a lie. I don't know. Just awanted to say that. Carry on.....

vilna43 wrote:Honestly it would feel like telling a lie. I don't know. Just awanted to say that. Carry on.....

You might feel a bit more comfortable dismissing an afterlife if you had had it inculcated in you from a young age that certain forms of behavior will lead to eternal torture.

please that part i get
you miss me if you suppose I don't piss on all that. out loud and in the very kitchen of that cook when ever I can.

In the beginning Jesus created the Heavens and the Earth.

krakabash wrote:In the beginning Jesus created the Heavens and the Earth.

Yeah, but he didn't create Bacterial Flagellum.

krakabash wrote:In the beginning Jesus created the Heavens and the Earth.

Actually God "the Father" created everything in week then invented the weekend to top it off, Jesus "the Son" came along a little later... but they are the same, not two gods or that would be polytheism and much more unrealistic than monotheism...

wow. 30 pages of retarded.

that damned fly wrote:wow. 30 pages of retarded.

It was important to "teach the controversy".