Redline wrote:Let's all jump on the puppy pile now and cuddle, you fucking racist bastards.

Earwicker wrote:I've been going to the West coast of Scotland once or twice a year for about five years now. Fort William, Oban, Lochgilpead. I've walked across Skye and Lewis. I've been to a few places on the East side around Aberdeen and I once worked in Motherwell for a week - it was a shithole.
All these places had posh English types there and a suspicious number of Ozzies working in bars (except Motherwell and Lewis. I think I've met about two or three Scots on the West Coast everyone else has been either an Oz or a ra ra English type)

These are all (bar Motherwell) tourist-y places. It would be foolish of you to think this is the norm in other parts of Scotland. I don't know any English people living in the same village as me. There was only one English girl in my year at secondary school, and certainly no Aussies.

I don't think the Scottish regard the present generation of English people the same as their ancestors did. I don't think they regard us as a people that they should prepare for war with. They just think we're wankers.

Well, again, I'd say the racist, ignorant ones think that. You're saying the perfectly reasonable ones think that.

With regards to Scots thinking the English are wankers, I'd say a lot of us do, but only because of the English media. I don't think the English are wankers. I can't emphasise enough how bad the English media makes the English people look.

Luckily, I know enough cool English folks to surmise that they're not all wankers, though doubtless there are plenty of wankers knocking about. Just like there are wankers in France, USA, Japan...

Also, with regards to Scot's mistrust and ill-feeling towards the English...

...Thatcher? Poll tax? Do you see?

Nico Adie wrote:

Earwicker wrote:I've been going to the West coast of Scotland once or twice a year for about five years now. Fort William, Oban, Lochgilpead. I've walked across Skye and Lewis. I've been to a few places on the East side around Aberdeen and I once worked in Motherwell for a week - it was a shithole.
All these places had posh English types there and a suspicious number of Ozzies working in bars (except Motherwell and Lewis. I think I've met about two or three Scots on the West Coast everyone else has been either an Oz or a ra ra English type)

These are all (bar Motherwell) tourist-y places. It would be foolish of you to think this is the norm in other parts of Scotland. I don't know any English people living in the same village as me. There was only one English girl in my year at secondary school, and certainly no Aussies.

Isn't all of Scotland just a large grouse hunting tourist outpost for we dastardly colonial English?



No but really I wasn't genuinely suggesting all of Scotland was full of English and Australians.
Only the nice bits.



No but really really I was just getting a cheb on over Chapter Two's patronising tone in his response. Yeah Chapter Two - fuck you

Motherwell incidentally did have some posh English types there.
They were in charge of the building project I was working on.
Infer from that what you will.

Heroin Galore.

I understand that some people are of the opinion that what happened hundreds of years ago happened, and we're all friends now. But on a less political level, disregarding the arguments that scotland is still ruled by England, the devolved parliament having power to deal with only devolved matters (and bear in mind that Tony Blair can as i understand it, sack the leader of the Labour party in Scotland, thereby removing any first minister we have who doesn't toe the party line when told) there are many other reasons why us scots have a dislike for England (although not necessarily the English I have to say).

One of the main ones is football and its' coverage. The joke that is the BBC (the apparently British broadcasting corporation) during the last world cup forced this hyperactive pro English coverage, commentary, sentimentality down our throats, and we had no choice if we wanted to watch the world cup.
It goes a lot further than football of course, but this is a good example.
Imagine (like my friend and former forum member Solum used to say) you lived in France and all the TV/Media you saw was made in Spain. It breeds contempt.

I don't think Scotland will become independent, but i do think that should we decide to as a nation, this is not a decision that should be ok'd/rejected in westminster. I'm sure many people can understand why that might be the case.

Incidentally, as far as the "but everyone in england loves the scots, why do they hate us?" argument goes. I'm scottish, i live in England now (a forced move) and i had 2 scottish friends visit at the weekend. Trying to do something as simle as spend £20 sterling in a restaurant with a clydesdale bank note, proves a major hassle. The fact that people don't even know this money exists is, in my eyes, ignorant. Similarly, the fact that a lot of english people don;t understand why scotland doesn;t like england is in itself one of the reasons Scotland doesn't like England. England is almost completely ignorant of Scotland, it's issues, it's opinions, few English people i know have actually been there, whereas, to my knowledge, every single Scottish person i know has been to England.

fraser wrote:Imagine (like my friend and former forum member Solum used to say) you lived in France and all the TV/Media you saw was made in Spain. It breeds contempt.

Wanting to work in the media I'm slightly contemptuous of the fact that almost all of the British stuff is made in London. This doesn't make me think anything remotely negative towards Londoners though.
Chapter Two's point was that because the English have been cunts in the past that the Scots have a right to view us all with a negative stereostypical image. I disagree.
I would still disagree if all my TV was made in Latvia and was about Latvians.

fraser wrote:Incidentally, as far as the "but everyone in england loves the scots, why do they hate us?" argument goes. I'm scottish, i live in England now (a forced move) and i had 2 scottish friends visit at the weekend.

Was this move forced at the end of an En-gleshmans Sward?

fraser wrote:Trying to do something as simle as spend £20 sterling in a restaurant with a clydesdale bank note, proves a major hassle. The fact that people don't even know this money exists is, in my eyes, ignorant.

You're right it is ignorant. But I hardly think it demonstrates some kind of English contempt for all things Scots.

fraser wrote:Similarly, the fact that a lot of english people don;t understand why scotland doesn;t like england is in itself one of the reasons Scotland doesn't like England.

Well, you've stumped me with that one.

You are saying that if I understood why Scottish people don't like the English then Scottish people would be more likely to like the English.

This is silly. Go away and think about it.

fraser wrote:England is almost completely ignorant of Scotland, it's issues, it's opinions, few English people i know have actually been there, whereas, to my knowledge, every single Scottish person i know has been to England.

And yet Scots are still generally viewed by the English with, at least, indifference, if not warmth.
I am not saying all Scottish people are ignorant. Or even that there are more ignorant Scots than ignorant English. I wasn't trying to start an ignorance cock showing contest either. I was simply saying that if you're racist then you're ignorant.

You do accept that Scottish people can be racist too don't you, regardless of their television viewing habits?

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:

mackro wrote:What's sad is I still run into people in the U.S. who think Scotland has always been an independent country and then point to somewhere near Ireland as where it resides when shown a map.

The illiteracy of U.S. citizens with respect to geography is astonishing. For instance, I've met a lot of people in the U.S. who have no clue as to the location of Idaho.

For the record, Idaho is one of the seven Great Lakes, and it is bordered by Missouri, West Dakota and the moon.

You ain't see nuttin' until you've encountered some born and raised Philadelphians. Manhattan might as well be Timbuktu for all they know.

I'll also say we Americans do have one fault: alot of us are a wee bit too provincial.

matthew wrote:

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:

mackro wrote:What's sad is I still run into people in the U.S. who think Scotland has always been an independent country and then point to somewhere near Ireland as where it resides when shown a map.

The illiteracy of U.S. citizens with respect to geography is astonishing. For instance, I've met a lot of people in the U.S. who have no clue as to the location of Idaho.

For the record, Idaho is one of the seven Great Lakes, and it is bordered by Missouri, West Dakota and the moon.

You ain't see nuttin' until you've encountered some born and raised Philadelphians. Manhattan might as well be Timbuktu for all they know.

I'll also say we Americans do have one fault: alot of us are a wee bit too provincial.

Matthew seems to be falling in line with this really awkward GOP ass-kissing.

A wee-bit provincial???

Having trouble breaking the ice, matty?

Earwicker wrote:

fraser wrote:Imagine (like my friend and former forum member Solum used to say) you lived in France and all the TV/Media you saw was made in Spain. It breeds contempt.

Wanting to work in the media I'm slightly contemptuous of the fact that almost all of the British stuff is made in London. This doesn't make me think anything remotely negative towards Londoners though.
Chapter Two's point was that because the English have been cunts in the past that the Scots have a right to view us all with a negative stereostypical image. I disagree.
I would still disagree if all my TV was made in Latvia and was about Latvians.

I like football, i do not support England, i support Scotland. Ok, Scotland weren't in the last (few) world cup(s), but i don;t want England to win the world cup, because i don't support England. The TV (paid for by license fees that i and 5m other scots contibute to) doesn't seem to care about that. Of course i understand that i'm being petty here, all i'm really trying to say (or avoid saying) is that i'm sick fed up of hearing about how great England's national team are, were, or will be. It's this attitude in the media , much more than any ill-feeling towards the country itself that makes me delight in England's failure in tournaments.

Earwicker wrote:

fraser wrote:Incidentally, as far as the "but everyone in england loves the scots, why do they hate us?" argument goes. I'm scottish, i live in England now (a forced move) and i had 2 scottish friends visit at the weekend.

Was this move forced at the end of an En-gleshmans Sward?

No. The industry i work in (video games development) has all but died out in Scotland, as new money and new business in this industry becomes increasingly London-centric. When i got made redundant for the 2nd time in 3 years, there was literally no jobs left in Scotland for me. I got offered a job in england, and i accepted.

Earwicker wrote:

fraser wrote:Trying to do something as simle as spend £20 sterling in a restaurant with a clydesdale bank note, proves a major hassle. The fact that people don't even know this money exists is, in my eyes, ignorant.

You're right it is ignorant. But I hardly think it demonstrates some kind of English contempt for all things Scots.

Of course not, it made me embarassed though, when my friends from Scotland come to somewhere else in Britain, with their British money, Sterling, and over the course of the weekend, they have endless hassle getting rid of their cash.

Earwicker wrote:

fraser wrote:Similarly, the fact that a lot of english people don;t understand why scotland doesn;t like england is in itself one of the reasons Scotland doesn't like England.

Well, you've stumped me with that one.

You are saying that if I understood why Scottish people don't like the English then Scottish people would be more likely to like the English.

This is silly. Go away and think about it.

I have, thanks.
When some Scottish people have a disliking for England because of England's vast history of fucking Scotland in the face, and a large proportion of England neither knows nor cares about this, and can't understand why much of Scotland doesn't embrace them like they've embraced Scotland, you might understand why maybe Scottish people get annoyed by this.

Earwicker wrote:

fraser wrote:England is almost completely ignorant of Scotland, it's issues, it's opinions, few English people i know have actually been there, whereas, to my knowledge, every single Scottish person i know has been to England.

And yet Scots are still generally viewed by the English with, at least, indifference, if not warmth.
I am not saying all Scottish people are ignorant. Or even that there are more ignorant Scots than ignorant English. I wasn't trying to start an ignorance cock showing contest either. I was simply saying that if you're racist then you're ignorant.

You do accept that Scottish people can be racist too don't you, regardless of their television viewing habits?

Definitely, i've seen a lot of bigotry in Scotland, more than i've seen in England. Scotland isn't as culturally diverse as England, full stop.
You get bigotry and small-mindedness everywhere, you know that of course, i'm not trying to sanctify scotland or scottishness.
I guess scotland has a chip on it's shoulder about being the smaller, weaker nation, and while there's been a union for many hundreds of years, much of scotland, like many employees doesn't like it's boss.

fraser wrote:Of course not, it made me embarassed though, when my friends from Scotland come to somewhere else in Britain, with their British money, Sterling, and over the course of the weekend, they have endless hassle getting rid of their cash.

what's the big deal? It's a bit annoying all right, but anyone with half a brain knows that it can sometimes happen and takes the relevant precautions. It's not difficult to ensure that you have English money.

and anyway, it's a hell of a lot easier to pass it now compared with even 10 or 15 years ago. I no longer have a problem with Northern Irish money, although sometimes I do find myself on the end of a bovine stare as I try to explain why it's not "Irish" pounds, that that's a different country, and they have euro now anyway.

Just keep pointing at the bit that says "Sterling", some of these English chaps aren't too bright.