davesec wrote:and, no offence to homosexuals, why was everyone being such a dickless faggot when it came to dropping the magazine name?

I edited the name out to get back to the topic but I think the cat is out of the bag entirely. I didn't want this to be about the mag, more about what happened.

anyway....

DrAwkward wrote:Zom-zom, you have a website listed in your profile. Are you desperate for attention or something?

I've checked out his website a few times just to make sure I wasn't missing something. All I see is the same logo that I've seen on a bunch of ads hanging above urinals at bars like The Note here in Chicgao. Not band ads or something, but actual corporate-looking ads, like commercials.

I can only assume his website has something hidden where you have to hold down control and left click inside one "o" and then drag the mouse, etc, to make it do something. As it is now, it just makes me remember those ads I've seen above urinals. I want it to do something more than that. But, alas.





I can't believe you guys still read magazines!

DrAwkward wrote:Can we please drop the idea that wanting other people to hear your music is a bad thing? Can we please?

Zom-zom, you have a website listed in your profile. Are you desperate for attention or something?

I thought it was understood that I was referencing the music here, not personal items.

I guess maybe it's a generational or DIY ethic sort of thing, that paying someone money for this particular sort of "promotion" seems wrong to me.

I realize that when recordings, etc. are sold through distribution and all that that someone gets a percentage. Of course. It's just this sort of paying for being on a compilation, paying to play a show that I find curious. Go for it. I guess I've been fortunate to have my music heard without these sorts of things. I've never said that it was a "bad thing" to get your music heard.

As for my website, I used to do web design. I took most of my site down. It was up when I registered years ago. I'm sorry. I will take the link down. You can enjoy my urinal-logo around Chicagoland weiner-stands.

zom-zom wrote:I guess maybe it's a generational or DIY ethic sort of thing, that paying someone money for this particular sort of "promotion" seems wrong to me.

I don't disagree with you with regard to that at all--as much as i respect the man behind the publication that's being discussed here, i wouldn't pay him $300 to be on a comp when my band's been on a number of comps with a varying degree of exposure for free.

That said, i was mostly taking issue with the conceit that wanting exposure for your band/art/work whatever constitutes being "desperate for attention."

Being perfectly willing to give someone $300 to be on a compilation with other bands, some that you probably don't like, seems like being desperate. To me.

I haven't been on a compilation since 1982, and it was all bands I liked a lot.

zom-zom wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:Can we please drop the idea that wanting other people to hear your music is a bad thing? Can we please?

Zom-zom, you have a website listed in your profile. Are you desperate for attention or something?

I realize that when recordings, etc. are sold through distribution and all that that someone gets a percentage. Of course. It's just this sort of paying for being on a compilation, paying to play a show that I find curious.

I used to live in OlyWa and almost everywhere there it was pay to play. Crappiest thing ever!

anyway....

zom-zom wrote:I guess maybe it's a generational or DIY ethic sort of thing, that paying someone money for this particular sort of "promotion" seems wrong to me.

I realize that when recordings, etc. are sold through distribution and all that that someone gets a percentage. Of course. It's just this sort of paying for being on a compilation, paying to play a show that I find curious. Go for it. I guess I've been fortunate to have my music heard without these sorts of things. I've never said that it was a "bad thing" to get your music heard.

You never hopped a ride with someone and gave them money for gas?


Also, for some reason, this scenario is less like paying to play a show (which is a concept that I loathe) and more like paying to place an advertisement.

Additionally, we have not paid to place advertisements that have been neatly & directly solicited by magazine contacts following a PR request from us in regards to the possibilty of getting our record reviewed. This we do not do.

The comp, we did do, as we liked the magazine, and figured that a track in a freebee 20-track CD comp was a good opportunity for exposure to the reader base, who might enjoy what we do, as we all like the bands that are often discussed between the covers.

We did not expect to find out on our own that it actually shipped as a 47 track 2-CD comp without any signal from the magazine, or any clue as to the issue or ship date. And that we would have to try and track down a copy on our own, and pay for it.

Who the fuck is going to listen to a free 47-track 2xCD comp, really? I'll tell you, a lot less than would try out a free 20-track single CD comp.

At any rate, I'd just like to know what the goddamn thing looks like.

Fine. I've already said it. Our bad. We got taken, intentionally or not.

I would sure like to not hear any more inference about how folks now are way less ethically DIY. This is exactly what we are trying to do (now that we are not 10 years younger) to the best of our abilities, trying to make decent, mostly smart choices, and provide an entertaining time for those that bump up against us .

I'm working myself into a tear here, but....I'm now perfectly happy with this learning experience. Fine. Another thing that doesn't work. Fine.

We'll keep making music, like we always have, for ourselves to enjoy crafting and playing, and will fucking ram our heads against the wall for the umpteenth round, with complaint not much more than what you've just experienced.

Because one day, somebody might amble past, and be kind enough to let us borrow a helmet, and a hammer to really go at that fucker.


GODDAMNIT. I HATE MUSIC.

I just love playing it.


edit

zom-zom wrote:Being perfectly willing to give someone $300 to be on a compilation with other bands, some that you probably don't like, seems like being desperate. To me.

I haven't been on a compilation since 1982, and it was all bands I liked a lot.

This is the only compilation that I have been on where we did not have some direct connection with the instigator(s).

Other times we have helped underwrite the costs, and have received a portion of the comps for our own publicity.

This time we layed off that notion, as it was assumed that the benifit would not be in product, rather exposure.

This time, we got screwed.


I recently gave $400 for another compilation. It's called our record, and we did it ourselves, as many do. We will also pay for every other aspect of it's future state for at least the next year.

Is that desparate? We have no label deal, or distribution. Should we not have done this? That's a bigger waste of money, by your standards.

What if we paid for the recording, and someone else paid to put it out. Are we wasting our money?

I give. You have illustrated your perspective. Please, let's not recycle this conversation again.

I actually recieved an unsolicited email from an independent label I had never heard of asking me if any band I was playing in or myself would like to appear on a compilation. I email them back sayng that I was interested. They wanted $150. I told them to fuck themselves. I'm not going to pay some indie label I have never heard of to appear on a compilation which they gave me scarce details about. I guess Bigwig was appearing on it, and I never want anything to do with that band. I guess they were stupid enough to fork over $150, but I'm not.

I think this may be some kind of running scam in which labels, magazines, etc. get people to pay to appear on compilations thinking they will gain exposure, and the artists get fucked over. I smelled conspiracy and thought the whole thing was bullshit, and I suggest that anyone who comes across something similar to these instances should be wary. Its similar to a 'pay to play' type of thing, which also does not make sense to me.

There was talk of Criminal IQ doing a compilation that my band at the time (Debase) was going to appear on. Long story short, it didnt happen, but they offered us 100 copies of the comp when it was pressed and werent going to charge us a fucking dime. Now, thats a good deal.

Debase dude. yeah the comp "Kill Kids" was something we had wanted to do and was actually Rob from I Attack's idea. The project got a bit stuck in the mud when rob split with his girl and couch surfed for a bit. The whole idea was to get all these great young bands that Chicago is currently brimming with and put them all together on the comp. The money to produce the comp would have come from the door money from one big fuck-off release show whereby everyone paying to get in would get a copy and the rest to be split up amongt the bands. I'd still like to do that comp btw, but right now it's still a ball in the air.

I've had plenty of mags contact us about paying to have our bands on their comps but I've never bitten. The Krunchies were featured on an OX (German mag!) comp but we didn't have to pay like all the other bands.

Speaking of Criminal IQ Records, I listened to the Functional Blackouts today... "I'll be famous! When I'm deeeaaaaaaddd!"

Hi Darius!