newberry wrote:As far as his influences, I hear Captain Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf.

Anytime you hear Captain Beefheart you're hearing Howlin' Wolf.

Band Member: you know tom waits sued a company for using a ripoff of his voice in a commercial?

me: yeah, i knew that.

band member: and he won in court!

me: captain beefheart should sue HIM.

---

all kidding aside, he's a unique character, no dummy, with more interest in sound and instrument history than your average musician. Some of his sounds are very, very good.

Kerble wrote:jesus christ does he get on my nerves. I love "affected singing" with "trying too hard" mixed in! it's great! pack it in, Waits.

Hey Kerble,

Do you like Nick Cave? I sort of feel the same way about Nick Cave and Tom Waits -- love some of the songs, when the mood hits me, but often times can't get past the Schtick.

Anyway, I used to be a big Waits fan ('round the time of Bone Machine), but then it sort of faded away for me. Still love the sad later-period ballads ("I'll Shoot the Moon", "Dirt in the Ground", etc.).

OK! I thought everybody but me loved Tom Waits until about 10 minutes ago...

If Tom Waits played on an aluminium-necked guitar through a custom built "secret" amplifier encased in an ordinary looking shell to conceal the ingenuity of his creation, would there be a more positive general consensus of his work here?

I can see not liking him... but hating him?

He's been doing what he's wanted for more than 25 years only to end up on Anti Records. I don't see what he's trying to pull? Its not like he's selling shit loads of records or gone totally commercial in any significant way. If he wanted to do that he'd put out another Heart of Saturday Night. He was cool enough to help out Sparklehorse on a record. Mark Linkous might not even be alive if it weren't for Tom Waits. So if you are mad at him, have a reason. Not liking his music isn't a reason to hate him.

The whole "ripoff" argument is weak too. Would you go up to a blues musician and say, "don't you realize what a fucking ripoff you are?" Hopefully not, because that would be retarded and off base. You all probably had girlfriends that dug him.

Nick Cave is a fucking powerhouse too. If you and your girl are in the same room and Nick Cave walks in, that's it for you homeboy. No matter how long you've known her, its already determined she's walking out with Nick.

Cunningham wrote:Nick Cave is a fucking powerhouse too. If you and your girl are in the same room and Nick Cave walks in, that's it for you homeboy. No matter how long you've known her, its already determined she's walking out with Nick.

Salute !!!

gcbv wrote:Band Member: you know tom waits sued a company for using a ripoff of his voice in a commercial?

me: yeah, i knew that.

band member: and he won in court!

me: captain beefheart should sue HIM.

As far as I am aware he sued the company for using his song, not someone ripping off his voice (I think it was Screaming Jay Hawkins).
Which kind of makes this little script lose any wit it might have had.
Oh well.

Tom Waits was the only good thing in Dracula aside from Sadie Frost fucking a wolf.

Re - his affected voice. Have you heard him talk? His voice is gravelly. How can you curse him for that? And I don't get any sense of minstrel showness at all. If we are criticising whitey for using black music as an influence then bang goes the last fifty years of rock and roll music. Which I am betting has led to much of the music you all love. What are you all, rockabilly fans?

If you don't like the man's music then fine but I think most if not all of the accusations levelled here are unjustified. They suggest he lacks integrity which I take umbrage with.

Because he doesn't.

Earwicker wrote:Re - his affected voice. Have you heard him talk? His voice is gravelly. How can you curse him for that?

Agreed.

I find that comment particularly ironic on a board where so many shouty bands are popular.

Sandwich-shop guy: 'What can I get for you today sir?'

Shouty band singer: "CHICKEN WITH SALAAAARGHD AND MAYONAISE, PLEEEASAARGHHHHHHHH!"

Mazec wrote:If Tom Waits played on an aluminium-necked guitar through a custom built "secret" amplifier encased in an ordinary looking shell to conceal the ingenuity of his creation, would there be a more positive general consensus of his work here?

i dunno man - he has pretty much the same set up as the grateful dead did in the 70's - they even used a fucking ivp!

anyway back to subject - tom waits is great. mule variations, alice, orphans and rain dogs are very good lp's. bone machine has its moments. oh and swordfish has a couple of good uns but is very patchy.

I think it comes down to this: if you can't get into the romanticism of songs like 'Ruby's Arms', 'Martha', 'Lay Down Your Head', 'Ole '55', 'Downtown Train', 'Johnsburg, IL', etc. then there's just isn't much anyone can say to you about Tom Waits that's going to change your mind. Disliking somehting just because you can draw a connection between it and something else that's similiar is a pretty poor stab at critique.

Tom Waits has had a number of different styles using any number of different instruments and song structures over the last 30 years that I think it's pretty full of shit to dismiss him and his work. You may not like it, but it's certainly not crap.

The pompous bloviating on this board about how his voice (which actually happens to be his actual voice) is 'just a ripoff' of Louis Armstrong, or how his songs are Beat ripoffs (even though he just happened to live in the tail end of that period in NY) is pretty fucking annoying.