I generally dislike most lawyers, but my band was recently told that we will need to hire one soon. Is there anyone with any experiences with entertainment lawyers that could give some advice? More importantly, does the necessity for an entertainment lawyer generally coincide with a record deal like the one described in "The Problem with Music" by Steve? Are they only present when you're about to get a fuck job by a major label, or should every band have one during all types of label negotiations? It seems like a role that commands nothing less than blind faith from the members of our band.
Another reason I'm curious, aside from a potential record deal, is that the only other times I've been told to hire a lawyer, I was in danger of losing my freedom or my money. I'm sure these questions reek of naivety, nonetheless, I'd trust the advice from this forum much more than that of A/R reps., agents, and especially lawyers.

This isn't advice but isn't Santiago Durango (Big Black guitarist) an entertainment lawyer? I believe he represented Touch and Go in that Butthole Surfers thing.

ultimately you're responsible for your life and decisions. who you' re dealing with is up to you. read "all you need to know about music" from donald passman and "confessions of a record producer" from moses avalon. that'll give you a sense of what can go wrong with a major. a contract is a contract, and to think otherwise is shortsighted and stupid, so question every single wod in it if it gets to that point. there are a couple entertainement lawyers in chicago - but i still think the best thing is to get a sense of who you'r dealing with. dealing with touch and go, or a small label from the suburbs is vastly different from dealing with a major. understnad the vocabulary of potential contracts and go from there. hopefullyh you settele in with someone who's on the same page as you. theres a ton of info online if you search for entertainment lawyers and record contracts and such. if you get fucked -it's your own fault for not doing enough research and understanding how things work.

if you get fucked -it's your own fault for not doing enough research and understanding how things work.

i don't really get this

bands sign 'good' contracts all the time and get fucked

my only advice is: if you think you need a lawyer, ask yourself why you are hiring someone to tell you what's what:

1) if it's b/c you don't really understand what is being offered to you--go over it _on your own_ as much as is necessary until all the lawyer is doing is defining some words. yeah, it's boring, but read the thing a hundred times over the course of a couple weeks if you have to do so. the minute you start ignoring things that make you uncomfortable and taking 'oh, that's normal' or 'oh, nobody asks for that' as an answer (from either your potential business partner OR your lawyer), you are setting yourself up to do something you'll regret. early in our time together, my band avoided getting involved in at least two deals that would have been sure losers by just paying close attention and making people explain themselves.

2) if it's b/c you don't thoroughly trust the people you are dealing with--imagine the worst possible outcome of your relationship, assume they won't do anything the contract says they will do, and then count on that happening.

i have signed three record contracts in my life:

the first was with a label my band never trusted--we got out of the deal only b/c we had insisted on a 'key man' clause that the label owner assured us was trivial and unnecessary. that label has cheated us out of royalties, let the record go more or less out of print, and refused to release the record to our control. this is not a big record label--don't underestimate the extreme hassle of trying to make people live up to a contract. anyone can sign a fucking contract--if they don't want to honor it, there's rarely much you can do about it, realistically.

the second was with a label run by three friends whom we trusted implicitly--little about the arrangement went as planned, resulting in a fair amount of namecalling and tension. since these guys were decent people, they did the right thing (which they were not necessarily obligated to do in strict contractual terms) and gave us back our record once it became impossible for them to keep it in print.

the third was with a relatively large indie label, with one of the top guys being a friend and fan of the band for a while--we negotiated our own deal, on terms that we felt were greatly more than favorable to us, with our lawyer serving mostly to tell us what some strange words meant. the only bad thing about this experience was that the label, as stipulated in the contract, advanced to us and spent so much money (given our modest sales) that they were obligated to cut their losses and cut us loose after two albums. sometimes 'greatly more than favorable' terms will work against you.

right now, we work strictly with people we trust, with no contracts. they pay for making the records, period, within a strict budget. they put out and promote the records. we split the profits. it is by far the most easygoing and properly pitched situation we've been in.

we had a few major labels express varying degrees of interest, but they all gave us the fucking creeps in the end, however much we liked a few of their a+r guys. IF SOMEONE GIVES YOU THE CREEPS, RUN IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. that credo can get you far in life and keep you out of most if not all bad deals.

oh, and: 'in perpetuity' doesn't mean 'for a long time.' it means FOREVER.

hope that helps some

tm

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[quote="tmidgett"]
the first was with a label my band never trusted--we got out of the deal only b/c we had insisted on a 'key man' clause that the label owner assured us was trivial and unnecessary.

Last night I picked up a book called "The Music Business, In Plain English." It illustrates quite a few scenarios similar to the ones you were talking about. I remember reading something about "key man" clauses. If you have time, could you elaborate?

(The book is written by an entertainment lawyer, so it gets a little monotonous at times.)

I am reluctant to make this post, but -- okay, if you need an entertainment attorney, drop me a line (brw@roydale.com). I'll be happy to help you out.

The only reason that I post this information is because if I don't, you'll either: (1) sign a contract that you're not smart or well-trained enough to review, which means that you'll get stewed; or (2) pay some attorney far too much money for what should be a straightforward service. Neither of these outcomes is fair.

If you're nice enough, I'll charge you next to nothing, if only because I view helping out as My Obligation to Rock Music. Other people have helped me out with shows, recording, artwork, etc., so I reciprocate in this roundabout way.

weissenberger is actually a lawyer. no, seriously!

Last night I picked up a book called "The Music Business, In Plain English." It illustrates quite a few scenarios similar to the ones you were talking about. I remember reading something about "key man" clauses. If you have time, could you elaborate?

a 'key man' is someone whose continued involvement is necessary for some part of the contract to be valid. in our case, if our 'key man' was fired from his position at the label, we were no longer obligated to allow the label to release any new recordings of ours.

our key man grew to hate his boss, his boss grew to hate him. i think key man was at the label for about two months after our record came out before he got fired.

there was a long comedic denouement that involved the label head trying to 'lay off' the key man or get him to quit, so the dude could keep his grasp on our balls. but it didn't work.

(The book is written by an entertainment lawyer, so it gets a little monotonous at times.)

contracts are pretty boring too, but i guess my main point was that i think a contract is too important to just pay someone to tell you what it means. you got to read it yourself and make sure you understand the whole deal. even then, you are taking a risk anytime you enter into a binding agreement like that.

tmidgett wrote:right now, we work strictly with people we trust, with no contracts. they pay for making the records, period, within a strict budget. they put out and promote the records. we split the profits. it is by far the most easygoing and properly pitched situation we've been in.

this is exactly what i do myself.
listen to tim, he is a smart person.

regards,
jet.