skatingbasser wrote:Hmm... The article says he was armed, but I still don't read anywhere that the kid either "drew his gun" or "aimed it at the cops head."

True, but cops are allowed to shoot back at the sight of a gun, if another crime is in progress- it doesn't have to be drawn or pointed.

more from the tribune coverage wrote:As the detective returned to his car, said Camden, "he's approached by three offenders, one of them has a semi-automatic (pistol) in his hand.

Yes, that wasn't in speculation over whether or not the cop was allowed to do what he did.

It was saying let's discuss the cop's reaction to the incident the cop was in, rather than a painting of the incident someone makes in their head.

That's how it goes when you are in the buisness of fucking with people. They fucked with the wrong person this time and paid for it.
There's an easy way not to get killed by cops posing as pizza delivery men, don't rob pizza delivery guys and you should be ok.

Don't shoot! It's just Torgo!

Hmm...

hmm...

hmm...





...what Marsupialized said.

Seems kind of stupid to send a few guys out to confront an unknown number of people as they attempt an armed robbery. All the videotaped stings I've seen usually involve plenty of people standing by to ensure the safety of those risking themselves and to keep the situation under control. I would think the best way to ensure that the suspects don't just shoot and run is to make an overwhelming show of force before they make that decision. Otherwise, aren't you just hoping you can out shoot them if it comes to that?

What did they expect to happen here? Giving people the option of a prison sentence or a dead cop on their conscience might work alright on The Andy Griffith Show but it sounds like a pile of dead cops for the Chicago PD. Knowing that and sending a single car with two or even four guys seems almost criminally irresponsible. To the point where I have a hard time believing that's what really happened.

Just going on what was given in the article I'd say someone fucked up a sting and a 15 year old kid is dead because of it. Whoever cooked this thing up should lose their job.

Hairy wrote:Seems kind of stupid to send a few guys out to confront an unknown number of people as they attempt an armed robbery. All the videotaped stings I've seen usually involve plenty of people standing by to ensure the safety of those risking themselves and to keep the situation under control. I would think the best way to ensure that the suspects don't just shoot and run is to make an overwhelming show of force before they make that decision. Otherwise, aren't you just hoping you can out shoot them if it comes to that?

What did they expect to happen here? Giving people the option of a prison sentence or a dead cop on their conscience might work alright on The Andy Griffith Show but it sounds like a pile of dead cops for the Chicago PD. Knowing that and sending a single car with two or even four guys seems almost criminally irresponsible. To the point where I have a hard time believing that's what really happened.

Just going on what was given in the article I'd say someone fucked up a sting and a 15 year old kid is dead because of it. Whoever cooked this thing up should lose their job.

You honestly believe that they didnt have a load of cops around in the area? When they do this kind of stuff (i.e. stings, busts and that) they have all, and I mean ALL the bases covered. They use as many people as they can get. As for the cops doing this kind of shit? If you don't break the law, than you have nothing to worry about. Just like, when that cop with a gun says 'STOP!', that what you should do, because if you don't, they will most likely kill you! Remember the Breier regiem(sp) here in Milwaukee in the 80's? Yeah, I do.

Marsupialized wrote:That's how it goes when you are in the buisness of fucking with people. They fucked with the wrong person this time and paid for it.
There's an easy way not to get killed by cops posing as pizza delivery men, don't rob pizza delivery guys and you should be ok.

I'm completely in agreement with this statement. I've been held up at gunpoint in the past. Probably one of the most frightening experiences in my life. I don't doubt that there are plenty of cases of police abuse out there, but this doesn't sound like one of them to me.

All things considered, this is one of the least sketchy things the Chicago Police Department's done, neh?

vance wrote:

Hairy wrote:Seems kind of stupid to send a few guys out to confront an unknown number of people as they attempt an armed robbery. All the videotaped stings I've seen usually involve plenty of people standing by to ensure the safety of those risking themselves and to keep the situation under control. I would think the best way to ensure that the suspects don't just shoot and run is to make an overwhelming show of force before they make that decision. Otherwise, aren't you just hoping you can out shoot them if it comes to that?

What did they expect to happen here? Giving people the option of a prison sentence or a dead cop on their conscience might work alright on The Andy Griffith Show but it sounds like a pile of dead cops for the Chicago PD. Knowing that and sending a single car with two or even four guys seems almost criminally irresponsible. To the point where I have a hard time believing that's what really happened.

Just going on what was given in the article I'd say someone fucked up a sting and a 15 year old kid is dead because of it. Whoever cooked this thing up should lose their job.

You honestly believe that they didnt have a load of cops around in the area? When they do this kind of stuff (i.e. stings, busts and that) they have all, and I mean ALL the bases covered. They use as many people as they can get. As for the cops doing this kind of shit? If you don't break the law, than you have nothing to worry about. Just like, when that cop with a gun says 'STOP!', that what you should do, because if you don't, they will most likely kill you! Remember the Breier regiem(sp) here in Milwaukee in the 80's? Yeah, I do.

I don't think they had enough cops around to handle the situation. Think of the logistics of the thing. Robbers were probably already at the address when they ordered the pizza, in a car, house, or hiding. You have a half hour to forty-five minutes from the call to have all necessary people in whatever neighborhood they chose and in improvised position before you arrive. All this without arousing any suspicion from the suspects of whom you know virtually nothing i.e. who, how many, how well armed, how connected to or familiar with the neighborhood they are. You would need a special ops team in order to pull this shit off and have the situation completely in control.

To me, it doesn't sound like they had the situation under control. One guy died and another got away. Was this part of the plan? The guy with the pizza did all the shooting, where was everyone else? Who had his back? You can't plan for everything but if you are sending someone out to be held up by armed thugs you might give a little support. If it looked like he was in trouble there should have been bullets immobilizing those guys before pizza detective even got to his gun. Without that kind of support I'd be shooting too. Sounds like the guy was kind of left hanging out there, or he is some kind of renegade Mel Gibson vigilante type cop who usually has everybody shot before Danny can even get out of the car. Either way, he's lucky he isn't dead.