ginandtacos.com wrote:I guess what I'm getting at is that tons of people play Nu-Metal, for instance, and think they are good. And they are also probably very happy doing what they do. Is that enough to justify their existence given how god-awful what they do really is?

God-awful to you (perhaps in the same manner that you've referenced your friends' reaction to your music?)

Don't get caught in that trap. At the heart of it, what they do is what they want to do. No matter how much you or I might feel that it's a total waste of their energy and our time. They enjoy what they construct, I enjoy what I construct, you should enjoy what you construct.

ginandtacos.com wrote:
It's the old Wesley Willis dilemma....sure, he's happy, but it's sad that he doesn't realize most of the audience is just laughing at him.

I would argue that Wesley, rest his soul, by being unaware was afforded a pass that we would all give our left nut for.

The Right Reverand Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:i) Mr. Willis' lack of cognizance;
(ii) whether or not "most" of the audience (what audience?) was "just laughing at him"; and
(iii) whether or not items (i) and (ii) are even important.

Being happy with what you do to the point that you eclipse any and all perception of external naysaying?

We should all be so lucky.

ginandtacos.com wrote:I guess what I'm getting at is that tons of people play Nu-Metal, for instance, and think they are good. And they are also probably very happy doing what they do. Is that enough to justify their existence given how god-awful what they do really is?

absolutely it's enough to justify their existence. for one thing, many of those albums are selling *millions* of records, so by what i've perceived to be your criteria, they should absolutly not give up. they are terribly successful.

another thing to consider, aside from the total subjectivity of what "good music" sounds like, or a "successful band" looks like, is the fact that musicians themselves often grow. the guy you currently hate cause he plays Nu Metal (and i think that's sorta bogus of you) might be the guy who invents a brand-new and awesome genre that you totally love, a couple years down the road.

i played strictly speed/thrash metal music for a good few years when i first started. i love that it's part of my vocabulary. i love the fact that i started my instrument by playing one of the most challenging types of music to play. jazz is tougher, sure, but i have no interest in playing that, so...

people have already answered this one for you. continuing or not continuing on with playing music should be, from my perspective, something that you know in your gut. you couldn't stop playing for too long without going kinda nuts, and wanting to play. if all you have is a feeling of "maybe i should stop playing" and no counterbalance of "i couldn't stop if i tried", then maybe you have your answer.

or maybe you just need to take lessons. or at the very least, read the book Zen Guitar. seriously, read that book. great, great book.

The ages at which one should quit various forms of music were already given, so I'm not sure why this thread is continuing.

When Wesley Willis went on tour to play dives in college towns, kids showed up to laugh at a crazy guy. Those who knew him personally, including me, of course felt differently. Those in Chicago, as a rule, probably were cooler to him, as he was well-known. He was a handful to deal with in tight quarters, but he was a very sweet man at his core.

Didn't mean to start a Wesley Willis debate. It was just an analogy.


While I understand the point about being able to grow thick skin towards people who think you suck (after all, every musician will have some folks who hate them. Except ABBA. Everyone loves ABBA.), I think it's usually counterbalanced by something else that validates your work.

If you're in some band, and a million people think you suck but you have 10 fans, I guess it would be easy to say you feel good about those 10 people. But absent that, it seems pretty pointless to continue doing something that's explicitly displeasing to people. It feels sort of like teaching class and spending the entire time running my nails down the blackboard. I could say "it's making me happy" but that's kind of hollow if it's driving everyone else nuts.

it would be nice if there were some independent world court that could objectively tell us "You are failing because you don't appear to have any talent. Use your time more productively on something else."

ok

that would be me

stop doing whatever you're doing

But absent that, it seems pretty pointless to continue doing something that's explicitly displeasing to people. It feels sort of like teaching class and spending the entire time running my nails down the blackboard. I could say "it's making me happy" but that's kind of hollow if it's driving everyone else nuts.

you're right

if this is the case, and i have to believe it is, you really should stop

I guess what I'm getting at is that tons of people play Nu-Metal, for instance, and think they are good. And they are also probably very happy doing what they do. Is that enough to justify their existence given how god-awful what they do really is?

no

they should stop

there are too many bands

the guy you currently hate cause he plays Nu Metal (and i think that's sorta bogus of you) might be the guy who invents a brand-new and awesome genre that you totally love, a couple years down the road.

c'mon, tmh. this is unlikely to the point of being an impossibility.

everyone: if the music you make is no good, please stop making it. or at least keep it to yourselves until it gets better. thank you.

everyone: if the music you make is no good, please stop making it. or at least keep it to yourselves until it gets better. thank you.

Is this advice you would have given Jandek?

[/code]

I remember once complaining to a friend that all that I was working on/toward was in vain and i felt like giving up.

His response was,

"What else you going to do, watch T.V.?"

While simple and a generalization, it's actually quite profound. You create because you have to.

Please stop making music.

PM me your address and for free I will send you some music I've been doing and then you can tell me to please stop making music.....

but, seriously, please, just stop.

_n

toomanyhelicopters wrote:

elisha wiesner wrote:the keyboard player in my band...

this isn't The MVF you're talking about, is it? j/k

how the hell do you know about The MVF? we have not even played a show yet.

[/quote]

tmidgett wrote:

the guy you currently hate cause he plays Nu Metal (and i think that's sorta bogus of you) might be the guy who invents a brand-new and awesome genre that you totally love, a couple years down the road.

c'mon, tmh. this is unlikely to the point of being an impossibility.

yes, super unlikely, i know. but people do make this transition, maybe to inventing whole new genres, or maybe just to doing a really great take on a new version of an old thing. folks like the beatles or bob dylan come to mind. as far as i know, they're both examples of folks who started off playing really trendy music and went on to do *their* thing.

you can easily argue that Nu Metal is a million times worse than the old rock or folk that people started off with back in the 60's or whenever, and i'd reasonably have to grant that, but Nu Metal is what the kids are eating these days. back then it was little richard and whatnot.

maybe i'm just so biased since i started off playing metallica, watching headbanger's ball, all that, which was 89's version of Nu Metal. not that i'm anywhere near inventing a genre, but i can say without a doubt that i'm glad to still be playing all these years later. i still have, from how it feels to me, many years of music yet to come. i feel like my music has continually gotten better over the past 15 years, and hasn't stopped yet. so i guess that makes it really easy for me to answer the original question, when posed to myself. "not now".

Elisha Weisner wrote:how the hell do you know about The MVF? we have not even played a show yet.

finger on the pulse, that's all i can say.

no, seriously, it's cause one of you is dating my sister. the one i've tried a few times to get to move to chicago and play music with me, to no avail. you lucky dog, you.