Isabelle Gall wrote:

jealous eel wrote:the hafler trio

Do you like their new album?

No, not that one, the other one.

No, the other one.

You mean the really quiet one? Or that really, really quiet one? Or that subtle one with the occasional rhythm on one track? Or that super quiet one with the German voice on it? Or...

Seriously. I have, like, a month of Hafler Trio CD's bundled up in a backpack here. That's not including the vinyl, some of which is actually mine...

ctrl-s wrote:Do you think there was a causal connection between Dave's departure and them turning to shit?

In a way. The meat of Gang of Four was the rhythm section, which was less two-guys-playing and more a single, giant, rampaging steam-and-pistons war machine. I think it was the attempt to make up for that, in part, that resulted in their downfall.

At the same time, though, keep in mind that number of songs from Songs of the Free are actually pretty badass when stripped of their shitty production and sluggish tempos and thrown into a live set, so I don't think we can just blame Allen for the idiotic production decisions that followed.

Fuck, I even have a live recording of "Independence" that sounds pretty good, and that's from the unconscionable piece of shit called "Hard."

rayj wrote:

Isabelle Gall wrote:

jealous eel wrote:the hafler trio

Do you like their new album?

No, not that one, the other one.

No, the other one.

You mean the really quiet one? Or that really, really quiet one? Or that subtle one with the occasional rhythm on one track? Or that super quiet one with the German voice on it? Or...

...part 2 of the trilogy, yeah. No not that one, the other trilogy, the double trilogy.

Andrew Mckenzie's a very talented artist, but he's on record as saying that many recent productions have only been released as he is financially dependent on Hafler product. For a 'fan' like myself, there's just far too much to deal with, even if you bypass the many collaborations, which are more often than not curiously flat and stagnant.
If it's all there in front of you, i'd recommend the following programme. If A Mckenzie is a genius, you will find evidence of it here:

1. Kill the King/Mastery of Money/How to Reform Mankind
2. How to Slice a Loaf of Bread
3. Cleave/No More Twain, Of One Flesh/No Man Put Asunder

Antero wrote:

ctrl-s wrote:Do you think there was a causal connection between Dave's departure and them turning to shit?

In a way. The meat of Gang of Four was the rhythm section, which was less two-guys-playing and more a single, giant, rampaging steam-and-pistons war machine. I think it was the attempt to make up for that, in part, that resulted in their downfall.

Well put.
I love Andy Gill's playing as much as I love my own life, but without a super solid foundation, there's nothing there. His playing is, in a way, a response to the rhythm section.

At the same time, though, keep in mind that number of songs from Songs of the Free are actually pretty badass when stripped of their shitty production and sluggish tempos and thrown into a live set, so I don't think we can just blame Allen for the idiotic production decisions that followed.

If I'm in a generous mood, I can hear good things in about 3 songs on Songs of the Free.
Maybe.
In the end, they were a "sum of the parts" band if there ever was one. Sara Lee or Busta Cherry just weren't part of that. They didn't form the manifesto together and that was a big part of why the band was great. Take David Sims out of Scratch Acid and sorry, you no longer have Scratch Acid.

I think it's worth noting that the only reason Songs of the Free has even a smidgen of redeeming qualities is because half of that rhythm section was still there. After Hugo split, then it was totally sunk.

Also, even though I didn't like the "hit" by Shreikback, "Nemesis," and therefore thought for many years that I didn't like them as a band, I bought their "Y Records Years" collection and it's clear to me that Allen is one hell of a talent. Those songs are great. They range from sort of post-post-punk to bliss out, and I love most of it.

Any attempt to reform witout Allen has been a failure in retrospect. The last wave of shows, however, were fantastic. Also remember that Allen was the only working musician when GoF formed. He had a resume' already. My guess is that he had a big influence on making the art/chaos into listenable music.

So, Ctrl-S, yes, I think his departure was absolutely the reason they went downhill.

-A

Isabelle Gall wrote:
...part 2 of the trilogy, yeah. No not that one, the other trilogy, the double trilogy.

Andrew Mckenzie's a very talented artist, but he's on record as saying that many recent productions have only been released as he is financially dependent on Hafler product. For a 'fan' like myself, there's just far too much to deal with, even if you bypass the many collaborations, which are more often than not curiously flat and stagnant.
If it's all there in front of you, i'd recommend the following programme. If A Mckenzie is a genius, you will find evidence of it here:

1. Kill the King/Mastery of Money/How to Reform Mankind
2. How to Slice a Loaf of Bread
3. Cleave/No More Twain, Of One Flesh/No Man Put Asunder

I'd have to go with BANG (which has that whole mythological/prank 'audio psychological research facility' thing going for it), and A Thirsty Fish. I just listened to Through the Gates of Joy (sp) again, and it is pretty cool as well. However, my poor memory reels when I try to put titles to the works...and there are a couple of releases that border on bad disco. Really, I've had 'Hafler Trio listening days' here and there, and simply can't absorb it all. Quite a bit of it works for me, though.

i've said it elsewhere on the forum but if i had to name a favorite band it'd probably be the residents.

Deerhoof. The most consistently amazing band I've ever heard.

Skronk wrote:

syntaxfree07 wrote:No. You're just the one who spent thirty minutes typing a reply to said high-schoolers thread idea. I'm seventeen.

I just wanted an excuse to talk about how much I loved man or astro-man and find out why other people felt so strongly about some of their favorite bands. If you explained your selections in detail it would make for a better thread. I honestly want to hear your reason for Ministry being on your list.

Hahaha, I was just fuckin' around. I came up with that list in a couple of minutes.

Ministry's one of my favorite bands because of the strange direction Al Jourgensen took to making music. First it was cheesy, new wave. Then it turned into a hard-beat industrial project, after that, into a head-pounding electro/punk band. Now it's seizure inducing metal. How can I go wrong with Ministry? Every side-project the guy's had, was great, from Pailhead with Ian Mackaye, to Lard with Jello Biafra.

Sphincter wrote:Because he's into guys.

You've got the screen-name "Sphincter", and I'm into guys? Is your name a comment on the way you look?

Girlies have sphincters too, several. I suppose it could be about how I look? Are you saying I've got lots of muscles?

sphincter wrote:

Skronk wrote:

syntaxfree07 wrote:No. You're just the one who spent thirty minutes typing a reply to said high-schoolers thread idea. I'm seventeen.

I just wanted an excuse to talk about how much I loved man or astro-man and find out why other people felt so strongly about some of their favorite bands. If you explained your selections in detail it would make for a better thread. I honestly want to hear your reason for Ministry being on your list.

Hahaha, I was just fuckin' around. I came up with that list in a couple of minutes.

Ministry's one of my favorite bands because of the strange direction Al Jourgensen took to making music. First it was cheesy, new wave. Then it turned into a hard-beat industrial project, after that, into a head-pounding electro/punk band. Now it's seizure inducing metal. How can I go wrong with Ministry? Every side-project the guy's had, was great, from Pailhead with Ian Mackaye, to Lard with Jello Biafra.

Sphincter wrote:Because he's into guys.

You've got the screen-name "Sphincter", and I'm into guys? Is your name a comment on the way you look?

Girlies have sphincters too, several. I suppose it could be about how I look? Are you saying I've got lots of muscles?

No, he's saying your face looks like an butthole.

Christopher J. McGarvey wrote:

sphincter wrote:

Skronk wrote:

syntaxfree07 wrote:No. You're just the one who spent thirty minutes typing a reply to said high-schoolers thread idea. I'm seventeen.

I just wanted an excuse to talk about how much I loved man or astro-man and find out why other people felt so strongly about some of their favorite bands. If you explained your selections in detail it would make for a better thread. I honestly want to hear your reason for Ministry being on your list.

Hahaha, I was just fuckin' around. I came up with that list in a couple of minutes.

Ministry's one of my favorite bands because of the strange direction Al Jourgensen took to making music. First it was cheesy, new wave. Then it turned into a hard-beat industrial project, after that, into a head-pounding electro/punk band. Now it's seizure inducing metal. How can I go wrong with Ministry? Every side-project the guy's had, was great, from Pailhead with Ian Mackaye, to Lard with Jello Biafra.

Sphincter wrote:Because he's into guys.

You've got the screen-name "Sphincter", and I'm into guys? Is your name a comment on the way you look?

Girlies have sphincters too, several. I suppose it could be about how I look? Are you saying I've got lots of muscles?

No, he's saying your face looks like an butthole.

Why? That doesn't make sense.