Mark Hansen wrote:Due to fallout from the VT massacre, police have now charged some suburban high school student, from the far NW suburbs of Chicago, with disorderly conduct because of the disturbing content in an essay he penned for a creative writing class. There were no direct threats in this essay towards any specific people or places, the basis of the charge is that the teacher was disturbed by the content in the essay. This is on the front page of today's Tribune. If anyone could link it up for me, it would be appreciated, I'm not quite as computer literate as some of you on this board.

I could see, in the light of VT, discussing the essay with the student and a school counselor, to make sure there isn't some other kind of problem, but actually charging him with a crime is frightening.

that's kind of disturbing, indeed. i was talking about this with an old high school classmate from milwaukee a week or so ago... potential fallout and stuff... and we were commenting on what a completely morose pack of kids we were in high school, creative writing included, and how we would have all been in a stew of trouble had this sort of thing been going on then. i can understand trying to get to the bottom of why, but like you said, official charges? and if the kid if massively fucked up (i'm thinking maybe, but probably maybe not) a criminal record isn't going to make him feel better about the establishment.

Mark Hansen wrote: If anyone could link it up for me, it would be appreciated.

oh shit, and he's an Asian, too

Mark, if you look at the code for this post in the window, you can see how to link. Just grab the URL from the top of the browser window, and place it like this:

[url=paste in the link here]type the name for the link here, and then finish like this[/url]

Lee, 18, a straight-A student at Cary-Grove High School, was arrested Tuesday near his home and charged with the misdemeanor for an essay police described as violently disturbing but not directed toward any specific person or location.

The teen's father said he understood concerns about violence but not why a creative-writing exercise resulted in charges against his son.

"I understand what happened recently at Virginia Tech," said Albert Lee. But he added, "I don't see how somebody can get charged by writing in their homework. The teacher asked them to express themselves, and he followed instructions."

Some legal experts said the charge is troubling because it was over an essay that even police admit contained no direct threats against anyone at the school. A civil rights advocate said the teacher's reaction to an essay shouldn't make it a crime.

I'm the last person to yell Sue!, but Mr. Lee: Sue! At the least, demand an apology, and if you don't get one from both the school and the police, sue.

IMHO the time bomb at VT was already in place before the gunman was even born. In the early/mid 70's, Federal and State governments started a massive down sizing of mental health institutions. Roughly 70% of the institutionalized patients were released and the commitment standards made stiffer so that an institution would not have to take back the patients they released. This didn't just affect inpatients but also outpatients as well since the scale of the support system was cut.

There is a certain kind of perverse irony that Cho was taken into custody for an evaluation and found to be "an imminent danger to himself and others" yet he was released into the general population without any follow up care. The CYA? The current law didn't allow for his commitment. If this had happened in 1970, he would have remained committed and his treatment monitored until he was no longer a danger to society.

Penny wise, pound foolish!

kenoki wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:Due to fallout from the VT massacre, police have now charged some suburban high school student, from the far NW suburbs of Chicago, with disorderly conduct because of the disturbing content in an essay he penned for a creative writing class. There were no direct threats in this essay towards any specific people or places, the basis of the charge is that the teacher was disturbed by the content in the essay. This is on the front page of today's Tribune. If anyone could link it up for me, it would be appreciated, I'm not quite as computer literate as some of you on this board.

I could see, in the light of VT, discussing the essay with the student and a school counselor, to make sure there isn't some other kind of problem, but actually charging him with a crime is frightening.

that's kind of disturbing, indeed. i was talking about this with an old high school classmate from milwaukee a week or so ago... potential fallout and stuff... and we were commenting on what a completely morose pack of kids we were in high school, creative writing included, and how we would have all been in a stew of trouble had this sort of thing been going on then. i can understand trying to get to the bottom of why, but like you said, official charges? and if the kid if massively fucked up (i'm thinking maybe, but probably maybe not) a criminal record isn't going to make him feel better about the establishment.

It looks like this kid is a straight A student, well liked by everyone.

Just another extension of the no tolerance policies already in place in schools throughout the country. No tolerance=no thought

Mark Hansen wrote:It looks like this kid is a straight A student, well liked by everyone.

Just another extension of the no tolerance policies already in place in schools throughout the country. No tolerance=no thought

Tribune has excerpts and new details today.

The teacher really asked for this type of essay, IMO.

A Cary-Grove High School student charged with disorderly conduct for writing a violently descriptive class essay had received an assignment that said: "Write whatever comes to your mind. Do not judge or censor what you are writing."

here's some of what Lee wrote:

"Blood, sex and booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s . . . t . . . a . . . b . . ., puke. So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did."

So he's stabby cat with a deeper vocabulary.

And here's what probably made them go to the cops:

"as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first CG shooting."

CG= cary grove high school.

Good news, though- he wants to join the Marines:

Lee has never been disciplined in school, Loizzo said, adding that he has a 4.2 grade-point average on a 4.0 scale because of honors and advanced-placement classes. He signed Marine enlistment papers last week.

And a follow up from WMR on how extensively prescriptions are logged:

Under Progressive Community Treatment (PACT) laws, individuals enrolled in mental health programs are automatically reported to authorities when they either fail to renew their anti-depressant prescriptions or fail to keep a mental health appointment.

The first such mental health reporting program, called the Texas Medication Algorithm Program (TMAP), was initiated in Texas by then-Governor George W. Bush as a program to screen mental patients for mandatory psychotropic drug use.

According to our sources in the mental health community, a private company, Comprehensive NeuroScience, Inc., tracks mental health patients and their psychotropic drug prescriptions and, furthermore, law enforcement has access to this data. Comprehensive NeuroScience (CNS) is a subsidiary of Big Pharma firm Eli Lilly, a company that has close financial links to the Bush family.

As far as the federal government reporting to ABC News that Cho had no records in their systems concerning anti-depressant use, they failed to consider the records of CNS, which tracks those who have prescriptions for anti-depressants. If Cho's drugs were legally prescribed, our sources say the records would be held by the CNS system. Patients who stop their anti-depressant drug use often become extremely violent, a condition known as "discontinuation syndrome."

A number of school shooters were later discovered to be on legally-prescribed psychotropic drugs. Columbine High School shooter Eric Harris was on Luvox; Springfield, Oregon high school shooter Kip Kinkle was on Prozac; and Conyers, Georgia shooter T. J. Solomon was on Ritalin.

clocker bob wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:It looks like this kid is a straight A student, well liked by everyone.

Just another extension of the no tolerance policies already in place in schools throughout the country. No tolerance=no thought

Tribune has excerpts and new details today.

The teacher really asked for this type of essay, IMO.

A Cary-Grove High School student charged with disorderly conduct for writing a violently descriptive class essay had received an assignment that said: "Write whatever comes to your mind. Do not judge or censor what you are writing."

here's some of what Lee wrote:

"Blood, sex and booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s . . . t . . . a . . . b . . ., puke. So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did."

So he's stabby cat with a deeper vocabulary.

And here's what probably made them go to the cops:

"as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first CG shooting."

CG= cary grove high school.

Yeah, it sure sounds like this teacher set the stage for this story to be written.

It does sound like Stabby Cat. Maybe this kid posts on this forum, or at least reads it?

Bob, in the article that you linked to today, did you catch that the police CONFISCATED THIS KID'S HOME COMPUTER? WTF???

Mark Hansen wrote:Bob, in the article that you linked to today, did you catch that the police CONFISCATED THIS KID'S HOME COMPUTER? WTF???

Yeah. We live in a hysteria-driven world. Every law enforcement agency or government official can always throw the worst-case scenario at you until you stop complaining about their tactics. Every argument ends with 'the blood is on your hands!!'

"Maybe you should have talked to the kid and his parents for longer before you went and raided his home computer?"

"Oh, sure, okay, but the next time some angry kid shoots up his school, the blood is on YOUR HANDS!"

"Maybe we don't need to torture suspects to fight terrorism?"

"Oh, sure, okay, and the next time four planes are hijacked on the same day, the blood is on YOUR HANDS!'

Doesn't matter, gun control, wiretapping, illegal searchs- any objection to any police activity translates to 'a desire to let the absolute worst happen'. If you protect civil rights, you're pro-crime. Bring the troops home, you're pro-terrorism.

Uncle Ovipositor wrote:

Earwicker wrote:I fail to see why Bob's suggestion is insensitive to anyone

Let's say your wife is raped. If I were to say "That's too bad. Guess she learned not to dress like that anymore," we'd all agree that that's insensitive.

But this is not anything close to what Bob said in beginning this post. (I know Bob already said that but I thought I'd say it without the insults)
Your analogy would only be relevant if Bob had walked up to a relative of a victim and said something like 'bet you wish he'd studied History'

that would be insensitive

Uncle Ovipositor wrote:to take a tragedy and then speculate about what the "real" causes were disregards the outcomes,

I'm not certain what you mean by this but presume you mean that speculating about the 'real' causes (or potential real causes) is insensitive because of the outcomes of the tragedy?

If so then it's insensitive (in your mind) for anyone to talk about any reasons Cho might have done it.
Does the press discussing the matter bother you in the same way Bob does?

If not you're not being consistent and you're also ignoring the fact that it's healthy for people and societies to discuss tragic events - including what might have caused those events.
That some suggestions might pop up in such a discussion that may not be to your taste doesn't mean those suggestions are insensitive.

Uncle Ovipositor wrote:

Earwicker wrote:You seem to be suggesting that people are not allowed to discuss any tragic event for fear of being insensitive to those affected by it.

I haven't suggested anything of the sort.

Okay I'll slightly rephrase what I said above -

You seem to be suggesting that people should avoid discussing any tragic event for fear of being accused of being insensitive to those affected by it.

An accusation of insensivity is not a direct prevention of information but such an accusation does have a censoring effect. It claims to put limits on what can be reasonably or politely talked about.

You can disagree with the mind control suggestion and ignore it
You can disagree with the suggestion and argue against it

But I still don't see why the suggestion is insensitive or why you should have pointed it out.
I mean what purpose did pointing out your opinion serve?