simmo wrote:That was a great show too.

However, Ian MacKaye is both a legend and a fine human being, but when he started protesting about the number of CCTV cameras in the area, I did think to myself, "Spend a week here, and then see whether you're so set against them".


My liberal tendencies are really tested by this kinda shit.

Doesn't seem like all of those CCTV cameras are doing you much good.

Fuck it...just move out.

But once you have...make a swing through the old neighborhood late at night a few months later and have your way with these fucks. You know the Sicilian saying about revenge being a dish best served cold.....good advice.

Some Americans on another forum I frequent were horrified because I told them I don't give a shit about the concept of Identity Cards or near-constant CCTV surveillance.

Can anyone explain why, as a law-abiding citizen, I should give a shit about this 'Surveillance Society' nonsense? I actually can't think of a legitimate reason that I should personally be against it.

tommydski wrote:Can anyone explain why, as a law-abiding citizen, I should give a shit about this 'Surveillance Society' nonsense? I actually can't think of a legitimate reason that I should personally be against it.

Because they are tools that can be abused by (future) Government.

Because they are extremely expensive, and relatively ineffective.

Well, actually the CCTV camera "does a lot of good"; it's a mobile one affixed to a Police van that comes round and parks up on the corner where most of the crack dealing goes on. People disperse straight away, and given that it's known to swing by on a regular basis, that little stretch of road is much less dodgy now.

However, the "does a lot of good" remains in inverted commas because it's a very superficial contribution; not prevention nor cure but more like a badly stuck plaster on a gushing wound.

Tommy, I guess as long as you are wholly in agreement with the laws of the land, then you've got no reason to be opposed to a "Surveillance Society". But again, it doesn't attack the problem from the right angle - it doesn't fight the conditions that cause the problems of anti-social behaviour, crime, etc, just forces them underground.

Jacques Shellaque, that was the best post ever.

tommydski wrote:Some Americans on another forum I frequent were horrified because I told them I don't give a shit about the concept of Identity Cards or near-constant CCTV surveillance.

Can anyone explain why, as a law-abiding citizen, I should give a shit about this 'Surveillance Society' nonsense? I actually can't think of a legitimate reason that I should personally be against it.

You've been molded and conditioned well.
Good for you.........really.

Adam CR wrote:

tommydski wrote:Can anyone explain why, as a law-abiding citizen, I should give a shit about this 'Surveillance Society' nonsense? I actually can't think of a legitimate reason that I should personally be against it.

Because they are tools that can be abused by (future) Government.

Because they are extremely expensive, and relatively ineffective.

What he said.

I can see a reason for CCTV and it does reduce crime wherever it is pointing but as someone just said it doesn't cure the problem it just diverts it somewhere else.

re ID cards. Further than Adam I would be more emphatic and say they are tools that will be abused by governments (possibly this one as well as any future one). The anti-terror argument is ridiculous because the majority of bombers in Britain have been citizens so would legitimately have one anyway.
Any foreigner would either A. be able to get a forged one or B. not care because they're about to blow themselves up.
The only people it can monitor are law abiding citizens and it will be ludicrously expensive to set up and will no doubt be a shambles (remember the passport service a few years ago. Total chaos). We also have to pay for the privilege of having one.

No to ID cards.
Okay for CCTV but just bare in mind that violent nutter has just gone somewhere else. He hasn't stopped being a violent nutter.

R.F.F. wrote:I would have an overwhelming desire to stay up all night and catch the fuckers as to punch them in the nose. Fight this feeling. Nothing good can come from that.

The area where I grew up has got rougher over the last few years. My Ma keeps occasionally getting grief from little ginger fucks who moved in down the road.
One of these little fucks started giving grief to a family over the road so one day when said little fuck was walking passed the house the owner and his mate ran out grabbed him and took him into the house.

Now I don't know what happened in there - but I am guessing they didn't give him tea and biscuits - and the said little fucks didn't go anywhere near the house again.

So something good came of that.

Earwicker wrote:Okay for CCTV but just bare in mind that violent nutter has just gone somewhere else. He hasn't stopped being a violent nutter

Also the CCTV stays forever and ever - imagine a situation a few years down the line where street crime has somehow been magically reduced, as difficult as that might be it's even harder to imagine a future government ever withdrawing them. They were introduced for a specific purpose but will always be part of our society.

[tin foil hat]
Incrementally, it becomes easier to introduce further measures as we're used to surveillance being 'normal'.
[/tin foil hat]

i brought some justice to the same stretch of road where Simmo has been having his troubles whilst walking to work this morning - a cocky toerag decided to toss a half-eaten apple onto the pavement, so in response i went and picked up the apple, walked over to the little turd and said 'excuse me, you dropped this. could you go put it in a bin please?' then handed it back to him.

I was half expecting the apple to be thrown at the back of my head as i walked away but it wasn't.

A minor victory!!!

Dindon Shazwan wrote:

daniel robert chapman wrote:Why not move to Leeds Six?

But I like Leeds. I'd like to live there

Don't let one minor baton charge at a student party put you off. Come on up; Leeds is traditionally welcoming to gay-looking European/faux-European student types.