Ace wrote:I'm saying that Herzog's subjects are just as important to his films as he is. Herzog's documentary 'Little Deiter Needs To Fly' might be his best film, and no one is "acting" in that movie.

that's not true. often in his documentaries people act, and that was one of them. some of that stuff dengler says is totally untrue and made up by herzog. herzog freely admits that he does this a lot.

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:

Radio_Birdman wrote:

Ace wrote:Herzog's Aguirre is my favorite film, or if it isn't it is certainly up there, but he cannot make a good movie without another person. Be it Kinski (the best), Bruno S., or Deiter Dengler, Herzog isn't self sufficient like, let's say, Fassbinder, who I think is the most talented of the German new Wave directors.

As for Wim Wenders? Maybe if all of his movies were cut in half. He has Bruno Ganz and Nick Cave going for him, but the rest? zzzzzzzzzzz...

Obviously you haven't seen Kings of the Road. It is still better than any Herzog combined.

Alice in the Cities is also great and stars the blonde-haired guy from Kings of the Road--I forget his name.

Rüdiger Vogler. Fine actor, in all of Wenders early films.

Ace wrote:

Radio_Birdman wrote:

Ace wrote:Herzog's Aguirre is my favorite film, or if it isn't it is certainly up there, but he cannot make a good movie without another person. Be it Kinski (the best), Bruno S., or Deiter Dengler, Herzog isn't self sufficient like, let's say, Fassbinder, who I think is the most talented of the German new Wave directors.

As for Wim Wenders? Maybe if all of his movies were cut in half. He has Bruno Ganz and Nick Cave going for him, but the rest? zzzzzzzzzzz...

Obviously you haven't seen Kings of the Road. It is still better than any Herzog combined.

oh i've seen kings of the road. and no way is it better than Nosferatu. sorry.

I think you are too quick to dismiss Wenders. Both Herzog and Wenders have such polar opposite styles, I won't attempt to pick one over the other, a matter of personal tase I suppose.

Exluding his shorts, documentaries and music videos/ concert films, Wenders had a solid body of feature films in the seventies and eighties:
Summer in the City, The Goalie's Anxiety at the Penalty Kick, The Scarlet Letter, Alice in the Cities, Wrong Movement, Kings of the Road, The American Friend, The State of Things, Hammett, Paris, Texas (Harry Dean Stanton, need I say more) Wings of Desire.

The nineties to the present has been a little more uneven. Until the End of the World, Faraway, So Close!, Lisbon Story, The End of Violence, The Million Dollar Hotel, Land of Plenty and Don't Come Knocking. I haven't seen the last three and "Knocking" seems to echo Paris, Texas. Not surprising it was written by Sam Shepard.

Herzog had a good run from Signs of Life to Fitzcarraldo. Where the Green Ants Dream, Cobra Verde and Scream of Stone however were average at best. I haven't seen Invincible or his most recent one Rescue Dawn.

Fassbinder is certainly the best of this esteemed group. The most varied and original. Volker Schlöndorff was uneven at best. Don't care for his later Hollywood efforts.

Schlondorff is someone who I think got a little better as the years went on. At least 'The Legend of Rita' was pretty great, I thought.

'Little Dieter Needs To Fly' is one of Herzog's worst?! Woah, I disagree there. Hoo-boy.

Anyways, I'll need to watch more Wenders. I guess I just haven't been impressed with what I've seen so far, but movies are made to be watched again.

aguirre is one of my favorite pieces of music ever. EVER.

Woocheebee!

None beesh monstas!

Dieter isn't exactly mind-blowing but it's certainly not lousy either. Invincible and that horribly misguided Loch Ness mockumentary, on the other hand, that's another fucking story.

But his misteps are negated by things like his consistently awesome personality and little one-offs liek his role in Julien Donkey Boy (a good, good film in my opinion).

Also, I would agree that Fassbinder was the best (of the three).

His films are a gift, even the so-so ones.

And I like that he killed himself.

Not that he actually did it (ended his life) but that he had the courage to do it, to make good on what seemed to him to be the right thing to do.

Everything is so very tentative in this world and sometimes the general emptiness and superficiality of it all is too much to bear. I love the little speech before that black dude hangs himself in the elevator/lobby during A Year of 13 Moons.

The need for love in an increasingly loveless world.

Fassbinders films betray an extreme intensity of feeling. Fox and his Friends is fucking devastating. I think some people just have a lot of trouble securing affection and their work drips with a relctuant neediness that speaks volumes (no two people experience love in the same exact way).

Herzog's newest movie is the dramatic version of "Little Dieter."

Herzog is speaking at the Magnum festival next week (Magnum is a photographic agency, home to a lot of famous news/war photogs) and I am really excited about going to that - except for the fact that I have to dress up, which means going to work in a dress because I will have no time to go home between work and the event.

Eierdiebe wrote:Also, I would agree that Fassbinder was the best (of the three).

His films are a gift, even the so-so ones.

And I like that he killed himself.

Not that he actually did it (ended his life) but that he had the courage to do it, to make good on what seemed to him to be the right thing to do.

Everything is so very tentative in this world and sometimes the general emptiness and superficiality of it all is too much to bear. I love the little speech before that black dude hangs himself in the elevator/lobby during A Year of 13 Moons.

The need for love in an increasingly loveless world.

Fassbinders films betray an extreme intensity of feeling. Fox and his Friends is fucking devastating. I think some people just have a lot of trouble securing affection and their work drips with a relctuant neediness that speaks volumes (no two people experience love in the same exact way).

have you seen Martha? I just watched it a week ago - completely wicked.

Ace wrote:have you seen Martha?

I have not.