There is high quality meth...it's the kind that is truly crystalline and clear. But it's not the impurities in meth that are the problem! It's the meth itself.

As been noted, there are people who do heroin for years, or even decades, and seem to muddle through. I've not heard of meth addicts who can claim the same.

Some feel that if heroin was legalized many if not most of the problems around it would be greatly diminished. The cost would go way down, so that would greatly reduce theft and prostitution committed by addicts. It would also chase organized crime out of the business.

And doses could be much more controlled and consistent. Heroin OD's are typically just cases of people getting stronger stuff than they were used to. Or people who kick, and then start again at the same level they used to be at. If it was legal a lot of that would go away.

galanter wrote:There is high quality meth...it's the kind that is truly crystalline and clear. But it's not the impurities in meth that are the problem! It's the meth itself.

As been noted, there are people who do heroin for years, or even decades, and seem to muddle through. I've not heard of meth addicts who can claim the same.

Some feel that if heroin was legalized many if not most of the problems around it would be greatly diminished. The cost would go way down, so that would greatly reduce theft and prostitution committed by addicts. It would also chase organized crime out of the business.

And doses could be much more controlled and consistent. Heroin OD's are typically just cases of people getting stronger stuff than they were used to. Or people who kick, and then start again at the same level they used to be at. If it was legal a lot of that would go away.

I'm for the legalization of most stuff, but think about it...legalizing heroin. That doesn't sound like a bad idea to you? Let's just put the societal stamp of approval on something that is at the moment a deeply underground culture. Sounds like a terrible fucking idea that you haven't thought through to me.

At the same time...putting people in jail? For heroin? For something they do to themselves? That's ridiculous (obviously).

I haven't seen meth in upstate NY since the 90's and it was all ravers and it didn't last. I would imagine NYC's gay scene to hold its fair share, but I hear it's bigger in Boston.

The heroin "romanticism" is so lame, yet so powerful. I've seen people go down BUT not against their own will. Meth seems to overpower the will more forcefully.

2ndEd's comment on dope being the rock star drug makes me wonder if the near future will hold meth-celebs. All I know is their music better (not?) be called meth rock.

Minotaur029 wrote:I'm for the legalization of most stuff, but think about it...legalizing heroin. That doesn't sound like a bad idea to you? Let's just put the societal stamp of approval on something that is at the moment a deeply underground culture. Sounds like a terrible fucking idea that you haven't thought through to me.

Oh I've thought it through...for 30 years at least. But that doesn't mean folks won't disagree.

The operative phrase is "harm reduction." When you take a cold objective look at the harm heroin does, especially to other people rather than the users, most of the harm is a side-effect of its illegality.

As I mentioned, junkies stealing, prostituting, and otherwise sliding into poverty...that's because heroin is so expensive. And it's so expensive because it's illegal.

Legalization would also remove heroin as a cash cow for organized crime.

And harm to the user's themselves would also be reduced. Doses would be standardized. Needles and so on would be freely available, reducing disease spread by sharing works. There would be actual instruction as to how to avoid overdosing.

I seriously doubt anyone ever said to themselves, "I'd love to try heroin, but without that societal stamp of approval I better not."

In fact legalization would go a long way to de-romanticize heroin use. Heroin users wouldn't be counter-culture rebels, living on the edge, surviving by their wits, and rejecting petty social convention. Instead they would be people with a medical problem that requires them to go to CVS or Walgreens with regularity to get their meds.

And for those looking to quit moving heroin from the legal to the medical arena would make quitting a whole lot easier.

The primary counter-argument (other than "well, that's just not right") is that legalization would increase the number of addicts. I don't think that would happen, at least not in large numbers. You don't see that regarding pot in the Netherlands, or alcohol in the US when it was legal, illegal, and then legal again.

So yeah, legalize it. There will still be junkies, but they won't OD as often, and they won't steal as often, and they won't support organized crime, and they won't inspire kids as much, and if they want to quit they will be treated as patients not inmates. It wouldn't be a perfect world, but it would be a better world.

Heroin has to be worse.

The only Meth I have even heard about in the DC-Baltimore area is the Viagra + Meth "All Night Woodpecker" gay night club cocktail. And that could just be a joke.

Does meth even exist on the East Coast in any great quantity?

How is modern meth different than the "speed" or "White Kross" of the 70's and early 80's?

Vancouver's got Heroin "Safe Injection Sites" so it could be said that Junk is legal in Vancouver.

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2004_06_30/feature07_13.html

I've never seen meth up close first hand, but where I live has a huge Heroin affliction, affecting by some estimates 1/10 of the city population. That's fucking ridiculous. Yes, there are needles and vials everywhere. Even in the "nicer" neighborhoods. There are entire neighborhoods that have been decimated by this drug. I've seen many sick, sad people with no hope. It's pretty gross actually. The junkies steal lots of little stuff and break into cars for spare change. I haven't seen anything too serious, but the crime in Baltimore in general is no picnic.

Season 3 of HBO's the Wire touches on the idea of legalization as a solution. I believe the episode called "Amsterdam" and it shows the good and bad sides of a plan whereby the police "look the other way" and centralize the street hustlers into a 3 block radius where dealing and shooting up is basically "legal". The public health officials get involved and clean needles get distributed. People get educated because they are "out" - instead of being holed up in boarded up rowhouse shoting galleries. I don't doubt for a second this would help the crime problem where I live and possibly help some of the people who want treatment. Of course doing it ended up being political suicide for the Police involved...

i'd rather have to deal with a junkie than a meth head.

it'd be easier to take the junkie.

What meth addicts have ever made good music?

flyinghouses wrote:What meth addicts have ever made good music?

days of the new, man. days of the fuckin' new.

remember them? fucking awesome.

also, a future meth head was a cast member of "full house."

that's a drug with a hallmark of quality to it.

primate fly heavyweight wrote:

flyinghouses wrote:What meth addicts have ever made good music?

days of the new, man. days of the fuckin' new.

remember them? fucking awesome.

also, a future meth head was a cast member of "full house."

that's a drug with a hallmark of quality to it.

Heroin still wins by a landslide

flyinghouses wrote:

primate fly heavyweight wrote:

flyinghouses wrote:What meth addicts have ever made good music?

days of the new, man. days of the fuckin' new.

remember them? fucking awesome.

also, a future meth head was a cast member of "full house."

that's a drug with a hallmark of quality to it.

Heroin still wins by a landslide

for layne staley, or kurt cobain?

oh, what about scott weiland?

or the chili peppers?

is heroin to blame for iggy's 5 good albums or his 15 bad ones?

both drugs crap. and neither ever did anything for anything.