H-GM wrote:...how does one get a city full of jaded fans, myself included, invoved enough to give someone a chance?

Isn't that what's always been the challenge for a new band. First, you get your friends out to see you. Then your friends get bored and stop coming. Fair enough. How do you collect and maintain fans? How do you get new people to your shows?

You guys are kind of answering your own questions on this. Most of you say you won't go to a show where you don't know anyone on the bill. So, what we're learning is that most people don't want to take a chance on something new. That's understandable. I've certainly been burnt going to shows like this.

So, that only reinforces what I said above: get shows at places you would want to see bands. You're more likely to play with and make friends with bands that can draw people. That means fresh eyes and ears for you, if your lucky. It also means that having a little scene is important, because there's always strength in numbers. If four bands can bring 20 people out each, that's a 60 person show, not bad for a developing band. After that, it's up to the band to prove their worth seeing again.

You may not be good at putting on a live show, but some people can see potential. It's not easy to build an interest. There are bands I'm sure we've all seen where we thought they sucked only to find them 2 years later churning out something amazing. Everyone's progress differs of course.

Meeting and befriending bands is a must.

H-GM wrote:caix, are you giving me advice on where and how to book a show in Chicago?

EDIT: Ah, my original question is rhetorical. I will therefore put away the flamethrower. You lucked out, Frida.

I know you need to maintain your cool reputation, Randall. I'm just adding to the good points you bring up.

DrAwkward wrote:

caix wrote:There is this big misconception out there that it is impossible to get a show at a good venue if you don't know anyone.

I assume you're just talking about being a local Chicago band, right? Totally different beast for us out-of-towners.

Sure, your best bet there is to know someone, anyone in the city to help book the show. Though, I've gotten good shows out of town with cold calls. I think overall, bookers are fairer to touring bands because bands have more to lose on the road. I find this to be the case the smalller the city is.

this is my message to chicago - why not keep your shit fucking music to yourselves? fuck off.

caix wrote:

H-GM wrote:Aside from Marsupialized's broken heart, the bigger question is how does a band with virtually no connections land shows at reputable venues?

There is this big misconception out there that it is impossible to get a show at a good venue if you don't know anyone. I started my band not knowing anyone or anything. I made some poor choices on places to play, but never repeated those. It took awhile to crack the Bottle, and I don't blame them for being picky, they have a business to run and a reputation to uphold. I bugged the Bottle for the better part of a year, until they finally gave me a show. By then, we had proven ourselves a bit and they gave us a chance. But once you're in, it's easier to get another show because they know what to expect.

Getting a Monday at the Bottle is very hard. But to be honest, the trick to getting one is patience. The first one I played was booked six months in advance.

I've also played Schubas and Beat Kitchen, Subterranean, Darkroom, Double Door and Fireside (before it shut down) without knowing anyone. These were not impossible. I just asked and had a press kit available and awaited a response. You'd be surprised, sometimes just a reminder email to a booker or a follow-up phone call land you an immediate booking.

But be tenacious. Talk to bookers, call them if you have to. Email isn't always the best source, but you'll find out after awhile what's the best way to contact a booker. Sometimes, it's not who you know, but how to get a hold of someone. Your band is a drop in the bucket and the only way to get attention is to remind these venues that you're still alive.

The only club i know that has been impossible to book by phone, email and smoke signal is the Hideout.

Shows are not going to be handed out, especially if no one knows who you are. The quality of your music speaks volumes, of course. Don't think because your music is awesome, you're going to get all the best shows. Knowing someone or something is always going to give you a leg up over that. But they do work hand-in-hand. Once you're given the chance to prove yourself (and you will, trust me), take the bull by the horns.

My advice really is to avoid the clubs you wouldn't go see shows there yourself.

Thanks a lot. I was starting to worry about moving back home for good. It's just like any other place.

I will say this (though it's a bit of an obvious fact)...I can think of more bands in Madison that blow me away as opposed to Chicago...because the bands in Madison that are good were able to find each other pretty fucking easily...and in a smaller town like that, those like minded people are gonna come together real damn quick.

In Chicago...I really like Bear Claw and Quatre Tete (not counting a band that transcends the scene like Shellac). Those bands really make me excited...but in Madison, at one given time, there were like...four bands that got me excited like that...and it wasn't due to underexposure in Chicago, believe you me.

The flip side of all this...is that Madison bugs me...and none of the kids care about any of the bands that are actually good. In Chicago...I am happy. In Madison, I feel isolated and not happy.

And Mandroid...you saw Replicator, Moggs, and Colony of Watts in San Francisco. Right?

caix wrote:most people don't want to take a chance on something new.

This is the problem. I can't begin to count how many dreadful shows I've seen and how many crappy blind-item buys I've made, but I will continue to do so because it's another way to discover something good. MySpace is safe. A little too safe. I don't like the way music sounds on MySpace Music Players, or whatever the hell you call those things. (cock-punch for you if they load automatically) I think I can recall being mildly excited by only one band I found via MySpace through this board, and that band is named Shellac of North America.

Thanks you Caix for your previous post. It gets a little frustrating at times trying to get a decent show and it's nice to hear your stories and know that my persistence will pay off.

I have a few points to make, but I'm going to start with booking shows. As you said Caix, it is not impossible to get shows starting with no connections, but we can all admit... is it damn difficult. I am the other half of Marsupialized band. We just started seriously playing 6 months ago. We practise 4 times a week and now have around 3 hours of songs we can play at anytime live. Those are songs, not extended jams....songs. Out of all of those songs we have 10 to 12 that are really really strong, as in ready to professionally record and press. Just now we are learning the right way to record them and more importantly the right way to record my vocals(recording vocals what a pain in the ass.) Anyway, my point is we have the songs. Yet, outside of playing a show at Quenchers, mutiny, Hoittie Biscotti, and yes the dreaded Elbo Room, no one is giving us a break. It's almost like we are insulting the Empty Bottle by even asking them for a gig. The hideout has been nice about things, but the bottle has given us attitude every step of the way. The slap in the face is that I have seen really shitty bands play both previously mentioned venues. Oh well, as you said Caix, we shall keep pushing forward. Plus, being a few months into this we really have nothing to complain about. However, it's still frustrating because you just wanna chance to play and prove yourself. Y'know.

With that said, in terms of connections, if anyone could help us out with shows, I'd be more than willing to do so in return or help promote your band when I have the chance.

Point #2.

I have listened to a number of bands from the EA forum. Without listing off names, no surprise, everyone is putting out interesting music. That's what were all here for, we take music pretty damn seriously. Why not put together a EA night somewhere. It's very hard to start a scene, but why not start a night where people can come to expect to hear good music no matter what genre. I know this is what Boneshaker is all about and I'm not trying to steal any thunder, but......We should seriously think of setting in place an EA night somewhere.

Point #3

Mandroid2.0 wrote: I used to drive 4.5 hours to see bands playing in Chicago and the scenester jerk-off fest ruined the experience for me 75% of the time.

I never noticed this because I hadn't seen a show outside of the city limits. Then I saw Trans Am while in D.C. and everyone was so polite, attentive and just nice to be around. I was shocked. I'm used to Chicago where it's like a fucking pose-off at the show with attitude everywhere.

After living in DC for 3 years, and Chicago for the rest of them, and seeing a whole buncha shows in both towns, you people are crazy. DC and Chicago are virtually identical when it comes to the vibe of the audience. Both towns are "stand there and scratch your chin" kinda places. If you didn't see hipsters in DC that rival anything that Chicago has to offer, you must've gone to the red room on the wrong night.

So, so similar, these towns.

John George Peppers wrote:We practise 4 times a week and now have around 3 hours of songs we can play at anytime live. Those are songs, not extended jams....songs.

I just wanted to quote this in case anyone happened to miss it the first time around.

[looks in a general direction]

scott wrote:DC and Chicago are virtually identical when it comes to the vibe of the audience. Both towns are "stand there and scratch your chin" kinda places.

I've never understood this sentiment. Exactly who is it that you people are watching? Am I supposed to charleston at a Tortoise gig? People move when they should, and they're anchored when the music calls for it. I have never witnessed a show where there is a deep rhythmic element, only to have a group of chuck-taylor wearin', wallet-chain holdin', PBR-drinkin' mofos stand around like they're watching Momus or something. Hell, I danced with about twenty other people onstage at LSA for Mouse on Mars and played air-drums during "Prayer To God" at Subterranean.

YOU are the ones remaining still.

[holds up mirror]

How bad could the Elbo room be? It's a stage and a PA, right?
I'm not really interested in the rest, it's either play that night in our thousand degree dog pee smelling practice spot or at some bar on Belmont.
No contest. Maybe they'll be a couple people there who dig it, whatever.