My ZVEX Fuzz Factory does the same thing. If I use a guitar w/ a strong pickup, it kind of pukes out. I just turn down the guitar so it doesn't sag as much.

Redline wrote:My ZVEX Fuzz Factory does the same thing. If I use a guitar w/ a strong pickup, it kind of pukes out. I just turn down the guitar so it doesn't sag as much.

Yea I can definitely get rid of most of it by turning the guitar down, and the gain on the pedal down as well, but then I feel like I'm compromising. I had the guitar setup when I first ran into this problem and had the guy set the pickups really low in the body, which also helped, but didn't solve it completely.

I'm starting to think it's ultimately the preamp in the old twin reverb I'm using. If this is the case, what would I need to do to go about fixing it?

Yea I can definitely get rid of most of it by turning the guitar down, and the gain on the pedal down as well, but then I feel like I'm compromising. I had the guitar setup when I first ran into this problem and had the guy set the pickups really low in the body, which also helped, but didn't solve it completely.

Okay, I understand that you don't want to deal with setting the guitar volume to a specific lower spot as a rule--that suggestion was just to test what's causing the problem. Same goes for the pickup height questions. If the problem goes away after either of these, then I don't think your pickups are actually faulty.

If there is not actually something broken or in need of adjustment, then the lowered-gain solution is just a practical way of dealing with something you don't like about your gear. Humbuckers always sound "blurrier" to me than single-coils, for example. I also understand how you might want all the distortion the pedal is able to provide, but the side effect of doing this when using your SG is this sagging attack.

I'm starting to think it's ultimately the preamp in the old twin reverb I'm using. If this is the case, what would I need to do to go about fixing it?

Well, what makes you suspect the preamp in the Twin? Once your guitar has gone through a distortion box with the gain up, the signal dynamics have been crushed so much that the attack of the signal is at the same level as the sustaining portion. So if the Twin was causing the problem, the amp wouldn't be able to differentiate between the attack and the sustaining signal, which means the problem would be occurring on more than just the attack. That is, unless you have the Rat set for very low gain and very high output, which doesn't seem to be the case.

-Tom

Maybe you could try a pedal that mixes your clean sound in with the overdriven, like the Voodoo Labs Sparkledrive?

tgavin wrote:

Yea I can definitely get rid of most of it by turning the guitar down, and the gain on the pedal down as well, but then I feel like I'm compromising. I had the guitar setup when I first ran into this problem and had the guy set the pickups really low in the body, which also helped, but didn't solve it completely.

Okay, I understand that you don't want to deal with setting the guitar volume to a specific lower spot as a rule--that suggestion was just to test what's causing the problem. Same goes for the pickup height questions. If the problem goes away after either of these, then I don't think your pickups are actually faulty.

If there is not actually something broken or in need of adjustment, then the lowered-gain solution is just a practical way of dealing with something you don't like about your gear. Humbuckers always sound "blurrier" to me than single-coils, for example. I also understand how you might want all the distortion the pedal is able to provide, but the side effect of doing this when using your SG is this sagging attack.

I'm starting to think it's ultimately the preamp in the old twin reverb I'm using. If this is the case, what would I need to do to go about fixing it?

Well, what makes you suspect the preamp in the Twin? Once your guitar has gone through a distortion box with the gain up, the signal dynamics have been crushed so much that the attack of the signal is at the same level as the sustaining portion. So if the Twin was causing the problem, the amp wouldn't be able to differentiate between the attack and the sustaining signal, which means the problem would be occurring on more than just the attack. That is, unless you have the Rat set for very low gain and very high output, which doesn't seem to be the case.

-Tom

Well, after the preamp was suggested, I tried the same setup on a different amp (a newer hot rod deluxe) - didn't notice the sagging, even the distortion was all the way up on the Rat. Also didn't hear nearly as much of the strange harmonic distortion from the new pedal.

Could this be a case of a failing tube?

In the case of it happening or being more obvious on attack, could just be a case of how I strum, or just that's it's more obvious at that point because you're expecting a jolting attack, and you don't get it, whereas if I were strumming along, I probably wouldn't notice it as much, especially when playing in a band setting.

It's hard to say why you hear the problem on the Twin and not the HR Deluxe--could be a few things that aren't necessarily flaws. My point about the Twin was that, unless you have the output of the pedal very high up, you're not going to make the twin clip the attack of the signal, especially after the pedal is already doing so. Does the Twin exhibit anything like that problem otherwise--with other pedals, or with none?

As for a failing tube... even hitting the input of the Twin with the loudest signal a pedal will put out, you're not going to hurt the tube in the first stage that way. Usually a failing preamp tube makes intermittent noises, squeals microphonically, or just plain doesn't work. However, it's easy to just replace the 12AX7 and see--even if the current tube is not broken, you might like the sound of a replacement better, and maybe the problem would be less apparent.

-Tom

tgavin wrote:It's hard to say why you hear the problem on the Twin and not the HR Deluxe--could be a few things that aren't necessarily flaws. My point about the Twin was that, unless you have the output of the pedal very high up, you're not going to make the twin clip the attack of the signal, especially after the pedal is already doing so. Does the Twin exhibit anything like that problem otherwise--with other pedals, or with none?

As for a failing tube... even hitting the input of the Twin with the loudest signal a pedal will put out, you're not going to hurt the tube in the first stage that way. Usually a failing preamp tube makes intermittent noises, squeals microphonically, or just plain doesn't work. However, it's easy to just replace the 12AX7 and see--even if the current tube is not broken, you might like the sound of a replacement better, and maybe the problem would be less apparent.

-Tom

Bumping this back up because it's driving me insane. Since my last post on this, I've had the twin in the shop for new preamp and power tubes and it's been given a clean bill of health, yet that issue with the Rat still exists.

What led me toward it being the amp is that the problem doesn't come up using the HR deluxe or other test amps, but does with the Twin. The twin seems to be fine with any other distortion pedals (muff, other high gain pedals) but still freaks out on the Rat with the distortion set anywhere past 11 o'clock. The higher the distortion is set, the more obvious the problem becomes, and the harder I strum, the more often it happens.

At this point I'm just dialing the pedal down, but after shelling out all this cash on this amp, it's sort of annoying that this is still happening, and I'd really like to figure out what is causing it.

Help.

DodgeBallMinny wrote:Seems like you've checked the guitar (I assume when you had it set up the tech inspected the guts and everything checked out, no?) and you've checked the amp. By process of elimination, I'd say your issue is w/ the RAT, especially as you didn't report the same issue w/ your new fuzz.

I'd get the RAT checked out or just find a new dirt pedal to love.

When I had the guitar set up, I told the tech about this issue and he dropped the pickups lower into the body to help remedy it. Not sure if he got into the guts of it - I doubt it. But then again, this guitar is only a couple years old and appears to be unmodified in any way.

What really confuses me is that this problem pretty much goes away if I use the same pedal (with the same settings) and the same guitar on a different amp.

Basically, any of the three taken out of the mix and it's fine, but it's kind of suck right now because each of these elements (i.e. the twin, the sg and the rat) plays a key role in our set, so I kind of need them to get along. For the time being, the rat is set to about 11 o clock and that gets rid of about 90% of the problem, so I'm living with it, but it still annoys the shit out of me.

I'm not a big fan of the Rat with humbuckers. I used to really hate rats, but after playing one with single coils and alumitones I don't hate them as much.

I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think there are some modifications that I've seen suggested that will help with this problem, and for some reason I think that putting a true bypass switch in was one of the starting points. But I'm not sure, and while I can't remember how the switching is done in this pedal it's hard to imagine that would change much of anything. I'll look up what I have on the subject when I get home.

Hopefully none of it would require anything too extensive and your sound wouldn't be changed dramatically.