That argument might hold water if Michael Vick lived in a shack somewhere in Mississippi and never strayed far from home.

dog fighting sucks. i hope vick goes to jail. what a stupid thing to amuse yourself with. why can't we invent robot fighting dogs with like exploding limbs for idiots to watch.

I find the reaction to this entire dog fighting case to be a frightening example of the worst kind of group-think: an unreflective mob-mentality run amok. I will not dwell on the various Internet postings that call for Vick to be lynched, beaten, or put in a phone booth with pit bulls. In less than five seconds of mouse-work, you too can buy a "Save a Pit Bull & Neuter Vick" T-shirt. They are easy enough to find since he Internet has always proven comfortable quarters for enterprising bottom feeding parasites.

Yes. A dozen times yes.

It's not that I don't think Michael Vick is a horrible person. It's that I don't see much better in the hearts of his persecutors, especially when they call for him to be hanged or brutalized in some other way.

Dogs are the best people I know. My best friend in the worst times of my life was this guy:



But I live in the South, a place where it's not uncommon for a sort of silent dog whistle alert to go out that it's time to fashion the nooses and go after another Negro. (Or, two years ago, groups of Negroes.)

did the things Vick is accused of doing make me angry? LIVID. Enraged.

Did I feel like it was ok to join the chorus of honkies braying for his head? Not so much.

We have courts. We have prisons. They're gonna handle Michael Vick without any help from me. I'm ok with that. It's how criminals should be treated- by the criminal justice system, not enraged mobs.

that's true, but vick's troubles won't end after the prison term. the court of public opinion actually does matter in his line of work. the enraged mobs hold his future livelihood in their hands. i think that's the interesting question; when will he bounce back? the sooner we forgive him, the sooner he can go back to his million dollar endorsements. whoop whoop!

Basically if you are from hollywood you get a free pass, if you are in pro sports, you *used* to get a free pass, and now you don't

For instance Ray Lewis can be in a mob circle that kills someone and he is back in the NFL and everyone is sucking his dick like he is a pimp.

marky mark blinded a middle aged vietnamese guy (in 1 eye) in a coke fueled racists rage, yet hollywood gives him awards

Vick just committed the wrong crime at the wrong time in the wrong state and reacted wrongly to it.

NBA players have been involved in dogfighting, wife beating etc... its just a matter of timing. It really doesnt have to do w/ black or white.

OJ got off, Scott Peterson didn't. OJ Got lucky w/ his jury and a shitty judge. Ray Lewis lucked out in a "soft on crime, tough on dress code" type era.

We are still mired in the dress code era but its not as big a deal as it used to be.

Hexpane wrote:For instance Ray Lewis can be in a mob circle that kills someone and he is back in the NFL and everyone is sucking his dick like he is a pimp.

I'm not sure what your point is. He did go to trial and was charged with obstruction of justice. So, because of that he should not be able to go back to work? Do you suggest that all people guilty of obstruction of justice be not allowed to work again - or just athletes?

If you're point is that the legal system is possibly corrupt, I won't argue. But we can't apply different standards to athletes than the average blue / white collar worker.

barndog wrote:

Hexpane wrote:For instance Ray Lewis can be in a mob circle that kills someone and he is back in the NFL and everyone is sucking his dick like he is a pimp.

I'm not sure what your point is. He did go to trial and was charged with obstruction of justice. So, because of that he should not be able to go back to work? Do you suggest that all people guilty of obstruction of justice be not allowed to work again - or just athletes?

If you're point is that the legal system is possibly corrupt, I won't argue. But we can't apply different standards to athletes than the average blue / white collar worker.

No I'm not talking the legal system, I'm strictly talking luck, timing and pro sports/hollywood etc... (famous people)

Vick is going to do real time in jail. Ray Lewis.. was not even suspended by the league. He got obstruction of justice as a plea bargain to testify against his "friends" who were found not guilty of murder.

Lewis later gave cash in a civil suit to the victim's family.

Originally charged w/ murder... after his plea he got 1 year probation.. he basically plead guilty to obstruction of justice... in a murder trial... the only thing it has cost him is cash.

His reputation, in tact, his NFL career, he missed out on playing in the pro bowl, thats it.

Compare that to today's court of public opinion.. do you think he would fare the same way? My guess is there would be at least a 2 game suspension.

Not to mention that whole case is bullshit, guy gets murdered, Ray Lewis was clearly involved in some way, and agreed to testify against other accused "friends" of his. No one goes to jail, but the murder victim is still dead AND he agrees to pay off the victims family? Why would he if he was innocent?

I chalk it up to luck for him. The anti madden curse maybe? its just such a fucked up story and it drives me nuts how much people worship Ray Lewis. I think he is a fuckhead liar, scratch that I know he is a fuckhead liar because he at least plead guilty to lying about murder!

Rick Reuben wrote:

barndog wrote:That argument might hold water if Michael Vick lived in a shack somewhere in Mississippi and never strayed far from home.

Someone at Daily Kos commented:

Hey Whoopi- lynching and whites-only bathrooms were both 'indicative' of the South once, too.

I was discussing pretty much the same thing with my boss a minute ago after she told me about the Whoopi thing. Some cultures are into slavery, others genocide, still others ritual human sacrifice and canibalism, and some others cock or dog fighting. Cultural relativism's fine when you're discussing eating habits, dress styles, music, etc., but it just doesn't fly when you're critiquing repressive/sadistic cultural practices.

Hexpane wrote:No I'm not talking the legal system, I'm strictly talking luck, timing and pro sports/hollywood etc... (famous people)

Vick is going to do real time in jail. Ray Lewis.. was not even suspended by the league. He got obstruction of justice as a plea bargain to testify against his "friends" who were found not guilty of murder.

Lewis later gave cash in a civil suit to the victim's family.

Originally charged w/ murder... after his plea he got 1 year probation.. he basically plead guilty to obstruction of justice... in a murder trial... the only thing it has cost him is cash.

His reputation, in tact, his NFL career, he missed out on playing in the pro bowl, thats it.

Compare that to today's court of public opinion.. do you think he would fare the same way? My guess is there would be at least a 2 game suspension.

Not to mention that whole case is bullshit, guy gets murdered, Ray Lewis was clearly involved in some way, and agreed to testify against other accused "friends" of his. No one goes to jail, but the murder victim is still dead AND he agrees to pay off the victims family? Why would he if he was innocent?

I chalk it up to luck for him. The anti madden curse maybe? its just such a fucked up story and it drives me nuts how much people worship Ray Lewis. I think he is a fuckhead liar, scratch that I know he is a fuckhead liar because he at least plead guilty to lying about murder!

I agree with everything you say except for the notion that his reputation is intact. I know it's about the first thing I think of when I hear his name is that murder trial. I think it's that way for a lot of people.

barndog wrote:

Hexpane wrote:No I'm not talking the legal system, I'm strictly talking luck, timing and pro sports/hollywood etc... (famous people)

Vick is going to do real time in jail. Ray Lewis.. was not even suspended by the league. He got obstruction of justice as a plea bargain to testify against his "friends" who were found not guilty of murder.

Lewis later gave cash in a civil suit to the victim's family.

Originally charged w/ murder... after his plea he got 1 year probation.. he basically plead guilty to obstruction of justice... in a murder trial... the only thing it has cost him is cash.

His reputation, in tact, his NFL career, he missed out on playing in the pro bowl, thats it.

Compare that to today's court of public opinion.. do you think he would fare the same way? My guess is there would be at least a 2 game suspension.

Not to mention that whole case is bullshit, guy gets murdered, Ray Lewis was clearly involved in some way, and agreed to testify against other accused "friends" of his. No one goes to jail, but the murder victim is still dead AND he agrees to pay off the victims family? Why would he if he was innocent?

I chalk it up to luck for him. The anti madden curse maybe? its just such a fucked up story and it drives me nuts how much people worship Ray Lewis. I think he is a fuckhead liar, scratch that I know he is a fuckhead liar because he at least plead guilty to lying about murder!

I agree with everything you say except for the notion that his reputation is intact. I know it's about the first thing I think of when I hear his name is that murder trial. I think it's that way for a lot of people.

I believe you and I are in the minority on that one. Ray Lewis was cover boy on madden 4 years after pleading guilty to OoJ. The AP was sucking his cock and giving him votes after that, NFL commentators never bring up his charges and guilty plea, constantly worship him and lavish praise on him.

it just rubs me the wrong way that someone was murdered, he was charged, plea bargained his way down and its been no bubbles no troubles for him since.

Why should it bother me when I dont know the victim and millions of people are murdered around the world every year? The only reason I can think of is the NFL holding him up as some sort of poster child and standard for NFL players... yet Joe Horn gets ragged on for celebrating a TD or Moss moons the packers fans within the spirit of the vikings/packers rivalry... and he gets painted as some sort of trouble maker.

The NFL like the NBA is all about conformity. they dont care about morals, its bullshit. As long as their players *look* and *seem* to be upstanding citizens thats what the leagues want.

Oh Ray Lewis was involved in a Murder and charged w/ Murder? Well did you see he gave $$ to charity and has a nice smile tho?