nice way to put it Bellulah

Minotaur029 wrote:The man (Yorke) is constantly bitching about corporate culture and those in power...irresponsible human behavior. He's at the top. He benefits (or if he hates being a rich celebrity now, benefited) from those who would otherwise fuck over the little guy. The rich have made Radiohead rich.

Fair enough. I snicker at Rage Against the Machine myself for those same reasons. Since i don't really pay attention to Radiohead much at all, i was unaware that Thom Yorke had ever pulled some "the machine is evil" trip.

Mostly, I just reject the idea of cashing in on your art through corporate patronage. I am completely uncomfortable with that idea.

In most cases, i agree, but the world's not black and white. I have friends who made it through the major label machine with their souls intact (not to mention a house, van, and home recording studio), and managed to keep their integrity. It's a glaring exception to the rule, yes, but also proof that it's possible, and that there's no hard fast rule that says that you HAVE to do things THIS way, or else you are ethically inferior. I got tired of that attitude around the time Rev. N0rb quit writing for Maximumrocknroll.

We all take different paths in life to achieve our goals, and Radiohead took theirs. Examine it on its own merits, not on the merits of some punk rock DIY rulebook that we apparently all should be adhering to.

Also, salut! bellulah. The point about people being able to change their minds is ace.

This will seem all the more ironic when the next Radiohead album is released on a major or one of its subsidiaries. One that best understands their need for 'arstistic freedom and creative control', obviously.

Veering off topic here but when Creep first broke was I the only one that thought that Billy Corgan had started a new band?

Del75 wrote:Veering off topic here but when Creep first broke was I the only one that thought that Billy Corgan had started a new band?

No, but I did think it was the best song I'd ever heard.

Admittedly I was 12, and have since reneged on this opinion.

Isn't it pretty-much any artist's right to do with their art exactly what they like? Radiohead's 'career' hardly seems blighted by their business decisions...

I don't like Radiohead much, but I shall accept their kind offer of a free digital copy of their recent endeavours with gratitude. Well played.

NOT CRAP.

i cant decide if its just a cool thing that theyve done or the worst thing to happen to recorded music being treated as a valuable thing ever in the history of music.

This is a neat thing the Radiohead are doing, but as a new model to replace the music industry, I vote crap. As has been pointed out, Radiohead are only able to do this because of the success they garnered playing the game through the traditional channels; you make whatever moral judgement about that you like but the more important point is that it means that this model is not available to most bands. To truly fuck up the music industry system, an immediately accessible-to-all method is required, not a method which requires an old-fashioned hit-making career first.

Perhaps this will make people think about their music delivery mechanisms a bit more, and perhaps it will flatten the industry bulge a little (if Sting and U2 start doing this then executives are going to sweat), but this isn't going to lead to an uprising of artistically and financially independent bands unless those bands already have a million quid to fall back on.

It strikes me that ANY band could work at doing this, really.... the problem is that in order to sell many special/fancy £40 editions, you'd have to have people willing to buy them.

A large band can take a shortcut to being in that position by associating with a major label, but that doesn't mean it is the only way to ever get there, right?

Radiohead will likely sell a fair number of £40 editions, because there will be demand because they've had years to enjoy the big label hype machine (promotional $, etc) I suppose.

What if Fugazi or Shellac or whoever wanted to employ the same model... so the demand might be less, but if they wanted to, they could work other angles to increase that demand (tour incessantly, etc.)

There's kind of two separate ideas here...

1) "giving away the music for free as a download" which pretty much everyone knows that people hell-bent on taking would take whether it was given or not. So this isn't so radical, is it?

2) "being in a position to sell physical records not through a big label" I started to think, this is the way that The Residents had been operating for a while *until* they got this deal going with Mute now. Also I think the Grateful Dead were doing this, but then they've kinda gone back in league with Rhino... so maybe this is groundbreaking for Radiohead to do... but do we even know who is/isn't behind the scenes on the distribution angle, even if it isn't being under contract to a label as such, is there a larger corporation to distribute, of which now they are a paying customer?

Interesting, but still trying to get my head around the whole thing to determine if it's really that big of a deal or not...

Del75 wrote: when Creep first broke was I the only one that thought that Billy Corgan had started a new band?

Yes.

Del75 wrote:Veering off topic here but when Creep first broke was I the only one that thought that Billy Corgan had started a new band?

yes, you were the only person who thought that. ha!

actually, i was working at electrical, building the new studio at that point.

i hated that song. contrived bullshit.

creep came on the radio one day while i was working near steve, and i build it up like it's the worst song ever written. the contrived "chug-ah" guitar sound right before they go into the chorus.

steve says somthing like "eh, doesn't bother me so much."

i went on hating radiohead, without steve's help.

then, a couple years later, on the way to j_harvey's wedding in wisconsin, i heard a tape of the record which had come out that week - KID A. first listen - totally kicked my ass. i love this band now, post KID A.

i still hate creep.