NerblyBear wrote:As much as I love Shakespeare, would my opinion of his work suffer if I found out that he was a thief or a pedophile? It probably would. But he wasn't those things. In fact, he was probably just about the coolest guy in the world. And that's partly why he wrote works that dominate from start to finish.

Man, I really wish I could travel back in time and drink a round with Will.

Do you think most homophobic artists write songs about lynching gay guys? I'd randomly guess that half of the bands you like are mildy homophobic in private and you'll never find out.

Shakespeare? Tosh.

tmidgett wrote:
If someone is less than great, he has to be better than otherwise, proportional to how offensive he is as a person. I'm less likely to enjoy someone's art if he is a known shitbag, but it's hardly impossible.

First, nothing can take away from the fact that "shitbag" is a great epithet and should be used at all times.

But how many shitbags do you know of who are also great artists? That's what I'm trying to argue for: a causal link between intelligent and humane opinions and the work which is produced as a result by their purveyor.

I can think of maybe...nope, can't think of any.

tmidgett wrote:If someone is great or at least very distinctive, I don't care about any of this stuff.

If someone is less than great, he has to be better than otherwise, proportional to how offensive he is as a person. I'm less likely to enjoy someone's art if he is a known shitbag, but it's hardly impossible.

I don't think one's opinions about anything have to mean anything when it comes to one's art. They can be pretty much separate, esp when the art is very good.

I think the ridiculous thing, as noted, is to distinguish between homophobia and racism. It tells you something about yourself if you make this distinction.

That you feel that racism is worse than homophobia. Can others not hold that opinion without you judging them? Is your way of thinking the right way and everyone else is wrong? Would you allow others to hold opinions different to your without holding it against them, perhaps understanding that we all have different values, priorities and codes?

sphincter wrote: I'd randomly guess that half of the bands you like are mildy homophobic in private and you'll never find out.

And I'd bet $5,000 that this is not the case.

NerblyBear wrote:

sphincter wrote: I'd randomly guess that half of the bands you like are mildy homophobic in private and you'll never find out.

And I'd bet $5,000 that this is not the case.

Then you're naive. Honestly.

Well well well...
Listening to Barbra Streisand doesn't make you gay isn't it ?

YOU TOLD ME IN YOUR SEXY 'PRIVATE MESSAGE' !!!


(Okay, I keep quiet now...)

steve wrote:Why is it cool to overlook that somebody is an asshole? That seems about like the one thing you shouldn't overlook.

I don't think it's cool and I don't think it should be overlooked, not by any means. However it does not figure into my evaluation of the music itself. Lyrics, yes, if the lyrics are saying something in agreement with or contradictory to the author's bigotry.

Anyway, the Bad Brains had only 1 1/2 decent albums, and as far as I know only committed one hate crime (stealing weed from a gay guy). So I dunno, does that cancel out? Just kidding. Anyway I know Doc and Darryl and I've never seen them do anything to hurt anyone, and their kids are all decent as far as I've seen.

Something that sort of applies to this discussion...

For one, everybody has moments- at least- where they're assholes. Nobody's liked by everybody and, in turn, nobody likes everybody and, in fact, everybody hates everybody sometimes.

Also, not to get to general, but it seems like the black community in general has a general distaste for homosexuality. In fact, at least in America, most minority communities seem to really frown upon it. Actually, the world over, it seems (you're right, I am trying to be tactfully non-commital here) that the only cultures that openly accept homosexuality are Anglocentric Europeans...or the Greeks, or the Romans.

And...thing is, I've heard gay people make openly racist remarks and justify it by saying that they're entitled, because they're a minority too.

Which just means that you can't exactly resolve anything, or really take up anybody's cause, because taking up one side's cause might mean oppressing another.

You can't win, really.

The MayorofRockNRoll wrote:
You can't win, really.

No, you really can win. That's my motto in life. You can win.

NerblyBear wrote:

The MayorofRockNRoll wrote:
You can't win, really.

No, you really can win. That's my motto in life. You can win.

Maybe, but just not today.