Ladel Conrad wrote:ERawk got it right. what's wrong with adapting classical music to modern instruments? if not for that we wouldn't have the great music wendy carlos made for a clockwork orange or her interpretations of bach on those moogs. that stuff is primo brudda, and it doesn't need an antiquarian sanction to be good art

It all depends.

My problem isn't so much with Bach interpreted on piano; it's GOULD'S INTERPRETATION of Bach on piano. Gould is a quirky, neurotic douchebag who interprets music like a quirky, neurotic douchebag.

The piano, being shorthand for "pianoforte," is by definition a dynamic instrument. Interpreting music for non-dynamic instruments such as harpsichord or organ means taking inevitable liberties with dynamics-- which can be good or bad, and in Gould's case, it's really bad: not only do we get to hear his neurotically rushed phrasing, but we're treated to his nails-on-a-chalkboard sense of dynamics in the phrasing as well.

This group of pieces was published in 1750, so it might be appropriate to hear performed on an authentic fortepiano, based on the pianos of Cristofori or Silbermann.

I'm not going to be pedantic about the whole modern vs. period argument, suffice to say I enjoy some period performances and do prefer to hear classical period piano works performed on period style instruments. The volume and sustain of modern pianos tends to overpower the feel of the classical period works and create a 'wash' of sound that overwhelms the nature of the piece as written. Other highlights include hearing Mozart's clarinet concerto performed on a real period basset clarinet or the fifth Brandenburg Concerto played with the improvised ornamentation of the time, rather than just as written.

As far as Gould is concerned, I could generally do without his style. His Beethoven is execrable, and the Haydn sonatas I bought upon reading glowing reviews is sloppy and childish; especially when put up against the Andreas Staier disc on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi - which are excellent performances on authentic fortepiano (highly recommended!!!). Though, his early Well Tempered Clavier recordings are enjoyable.

Gould = overrated, big time

FuzzBob wrote:

242sumner wrote:It's a baroque work. It should be performed on harpsichord.
The piano was not invented until the mid 18th century.

That's a particular quirk of Gould's: he does all that stuff on piano regardless of whether or not it's period-correct. I'm sure he'd do a 1970s serial piece for MiniMoog on piano, too.

I'm obviously not a fan of his. His kooky personality comes through in his interpretations, which irritates me because the bulk of the works he plays (Baroque through early Romantic) isn't meant to be interpreted that way. He'd be better suited to Expressionist and later works where quirky neuroses are part of the intended aesthetic.

Bach, in particular, composed his pieces based on then-contemporary dance forms such as the menuette, gavotte, etc. which is the rough equivalent of composing "R&B in D Minor," "Crunk in A," etc. Good Bach interpretations have a certain "galloping horse" strut to them the same way old Meters and JBs tunes have their own kind of strut-- just the right amount of buoyancy in the rhythm to make it come alive and be danceable.

Gould interpreting a Bach piece is like Joy Division butchering "Give It Up Or Turn It A-Loose."

CRAP.

I agree, but not all that strongly.

I'm no Gould fan, but his stuff has its place and the "gallop" of the piece isn't really as essential to Bach as what is written-in to the composition.

Plus Gould's "quirks" are hardly his fault, but rather the fault of those who would elevate him or obsess over it. Which I find as annoying as a dick in my coffee but its something I have to put out mind when the music plays.

So, it wouldn't really be my choice for Bach, but it is hardly "butchering" either.

geiginni wrote:As far as Gould is concerned, I could generally do without his style. His Beethoven is execrable, and the Haydn sonatas I bought upon reading glowing reviews is sloppy and childish; especially when put up against the Andreas Staier disc on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi - which are excellent performances on authentic fortepiano (highly recommended!!!). Though, his early Well Tempered Clavier recordings are enjoyable.

Gould = overrated, big time

big_dave wrote:I'm no Gould fan, but his stuff has its place and the "gallop" of the piece isn't really as essential to Bach as what is written-in to the composition.

Plus Gould's "quirks" are hardly his fault, but rather the fault of those who would elevate him or obsess over it. Which I find as annoying as a dick in my coffee but its something I have to put out mind when the music plays.

So, it wouldn't really be my choice for Bach, but it is hardly "butchering" either.

I really came to my opinion on Gould from hearing him do Mozart, which naturally isn't that different from his Haydn interpretations. That's probably why my opinion of him is so strong. Interesting comment about him doing WTC-- I might check that out if I come across it the next time I go to the library.

But, now I'm jazzed about the Andreas Steier disc. That sounds seriously awesome.

FuzzBob wrote:

geiginni wrote:As far as Gould is concerned, I could generally do without his style. His Beethoven is execrable, and the Haydn sonatas I bought upon reading glowing reviews is sloppy and childish; especially when put up against the Andreas Staier disc on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi - which are excellent performances on authentic fortepiano (highly recommended!!!). Though, his early Well Tempered Clavier recordings are enjoyable.

Gould = overrated, big time

big_dave wrote:I'm no Gould fan, but his stuff has its place and the "gallop" of the piece isn't really as essential to Bach as what is written-in to the composition.

Plus Gould's "quirks" are hardly his fault, but rather the fault of those who would elevate him or obsess over it. Which I find as annoying as a dick in my coffee but its something I have to put out mind when the music plays.

So, it wouldn't really be my choice for Bach, but it is hardly "butchering" either.

I really came to my opinion on Gould from hearing him do Mozart, which naturally isn't that different from his Haydn interpretations. That's probably why my opinion of him is so strong. Interesting comment about him doing WTC-- I might check that out if I come across it the next time I go to the library.

But, now I'm jazzed about the Andreas Steier disc. That sounds seriously awesome.

It is awesome. I wish I could find some samples online. The disc I have can be found here in a three disc set.

Also.

The E-flat major sonata #49 in particular is hot shit. You can hear elements that would come to shape the work of LvB and Chopin.

I apologize for being off-topic here, but since this thread has the attention of classical music lovers I thought I'd take advantage. I'm a big fan of trumpet concertos - in particular, I remember listening to a couple really good ones by Torrelli and Corelli while I was in college.

Can any of you make any recommendations on particular trumpet concertos? Recordings / favorites? Maybe some other composers?

Thanks.

barndog wrote:I apologize for being off-topic here, but since this thread has the attention of classical music lovers I thought I'd take advantage. I'm a big fan of trumpet concertos - in particular, I remember listening to a couple really good ones by Torrelli and Corelli while I was in college.

Can any of you make any recommendations on particular trumpet concertos? Recordings / favorites? Maybe some other composers?

Thanks.

Teehee.

Haydn Trumpet Concerto; Hob.: VIIe
The only recording I have is Guy Touvron, trumpet w/Slovak Chamber Orchestra, Bohdan Warchal on Hungaroton

Hummel Trumpet Concerto in E-Major

Both were written for the inventor of the keyed trumpet, which was the first chromatic trumpet, invented before valve type brass instruments.

wow.

you guys are nerds.

nerd on.