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El Protoolio wrote:Vic Bondi on the couch

I enjoyed reading this a lot and it really does sound like a great analysis. I've read up on the effigies/AoF thing in the past, since I am a giant Effigies fan, so i'm also interested. While I know I don't know as much as you do when it comes to the Chicago scene at this time, I'm just wondering where Bondi gets the whole economic side of his invective bend from. He's always talking about the first wave as if they are somehow "not punk" or whatever because of their economic backgrounds. Where would he get this strange, proletariat vision of punk/hardcore from?
He really has reached a point where he's no longer thinking about the music anymore, and it isn't about the freedom of creativity or whatever. It's become a kind of high school to him and he's zeroed in on this particular economic argument, at least from what I've noticed.

Then again, I wasn't there - at the time, or at the screening - but i'm just wondering.

I personally think that may be a bit much regarding Vic, but I honestly have no idea. Direct Drive (the more rock-based precursor to AoF) was playing Oz & O'Banions in 1981 right alongside the Strike Unders, though I don't know if they actually got along. But it certainly wasn't like Vic was standing outside the shows hoping to get in, or anything like that. Seems like Raygun & AoF got along fine and by the time AoF came to be Strike Under was done. So one of the "big 3" from 1980 got along with AoF, one did not and the other didn't overlap.

To me you have two type-A personalities in Vic & John, they always said what they felt and in the process pissed off a lot of people. They both had the ability to completely alienate people and since they were interviewed so much back then, their stuff came to the forefront and got put under the microscope. You also had a scene with VERY few touring bands and no Internet, so much of the "national" scene coverage came from the mouths of a select group of people via zines. Therefore, their issues became magnified to the rest of the country as they had so few outlets for Chicago punk news....

I do think Vic took it more personally, whereas John was just saying what he felt - take it or leave it. He's still this way today from what I read in interviews. Actually, they both are...

Also I'm not sure how much this "battle" really extended past the frontmen. While some people even today clearly don't like John & Vic, I've never talked to anyone who had an issue with Dorian from AoF or Paul/Steve from The Effigies...

Honestly, I find the whole Effigies/AoF battle silly and everyone I talked to has a different take. But from what I can tell (and again this is all 2nd hand conjecture) it wasn't as big of an issue that the internet and zines made it out to be.

Though I have to again state that I wasn't there and I don't know any of the direct participants.

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tmidgett wrote:Every time I hear the Mentally Ill, it makes me laugh. It's some of the funniest, most ridiculous music ever. I was so taken with the Jax-driven guitar sound when I first heard it, I dug up the schematic for the pedal and built one.

I would very much appreciate directions towards this schematic.

By the way for any of you DEVOs like me who missed the show someone has been good enough to post some videos of it on youtube.

I really hope that I have a chance to see it again (and those of you who didn't see it have a chance to see it). Perhaps it will play again somewhere, or they'll make copies of it on DVD? I've been thinking about the movie a lot since Saturday night, and I would love to see it one more time. It's a lot to take in and I think I may have missed some things...
And yes, Mentally Ill were great. I had never heard of them until Saturday night. I'd love to hear "Gacy's Place" again.

In the AoF/Effigies feud, there was a certain amount of political animosity between the bands. Remember, Bill (Virus X) from AoF was, and still is for that matter, an RCP communist. Vic was more of an anarchist type, but I think a lot of his political angst stemmed from the fact that his father was a member of a government intelligence agency, (I forget which one), and he was definitely rebelling against that. I think Bill and Vic definitely thought the Effigies leaned more towards the right, or at least had more conventional political beliefs, although I thought it was more a matter of practicality on the Effigies part in dealing with things the way they were.

There was one time, when Oz was getting a lot of heat, when we had a meeting at Dem's house to discuss what to do. Several RCP people were there, and they tried to encourage the stockpiling of rocks, bricks, etc., at Oz in the hopes of having a street battle with the cops. We all rejected that as basically an insane idea, one that was designed to get the RCP publicity more than to help deal with the troubles with the city and the cops.

Also, in AoF, there was a rejection of playing established venues, especially if they wouldn't allow all-ages shows, as the gold standard of where to play, to a certain extent. This was at least part of the reason the hall shows at the Centro-American Social Club were so important to that particular part of the scene.

I remember myself, when trying to talk Nancy at O'Banion's into doing early all-ages shows, and then getting a lot of grief (good-natured, but still grief) when not many people showed up to that show (I think the DK's).

Also, as I have said earlier, Vic doesn't know when to shut his mouth and let the past animosities die.

holly golightly wrote:I really hope that I have a chance to see it again (and those of you who didn't see it have a chance to see it). Perhaps it will play again somewhere, or they'll make copies of it on DVD?

I think they are going to play one-off shows across the country for a bit then plan to release it on DVD. As far as I know it won't be replayed in Chicago on the screen anytime soon, but maybe with the turnout they'll do another run. With all the positive reviews & folks that missed it, I think they could fill up the Portage one more time...

I'm going to stay out of this Vic Bondi psychoanalysis except to say I don't like the way discussion of this movie has turned into an exercise in psychoanalyzing Vic Bondi.

I agree with Warmowski that whatever he wanted to say, he has already said (and said publicly), and since nobody else seems too bothered by any of it, it's more than a little weird that everybody is latching on/ piling on to it/him as though there was some great lesson to be learned.

I certainly harbor no ill will toward the guy, and as I have said every time his name comes up, He was an important part of the development of his scene, helped put on a bunch of great shows and befriended a lot of bands. That I wasn't a fan of his band (or his ilk of hardcore in general) is a sub-trivial fact.

Regarding the "feud," nobody who wasn't in the Effigies or AOF gave a shit 20 years ago, and even they mostly don't give a shit now.