Dr. O' Nothing wrote:

Hexpane wrote:boston.com

Here's an interesting excerpt from the report regarding the Red Sox’ pursuit of Gagne. Boston traded for the relief pitcher in the middle of last season:

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, “Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his medical?” The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded,

"Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . ."

Sounds familiar, ahem..
me, back in october...
But the most interesting thing about him (Gagne) now sucking ass is that he an obvious 'roids casualty.
This happens a lot, esp. with pitchers. They juice up, come outta nowhere or a history of mediocrity, and have an amazing year or two. Then, when they gotta get off the juice for whatever reason(s), they invariably get injured, usually for the long-haul, and never even come close to returning to their past form.

This is more of a moment of schadenfruede for me re: Gagne getting busted than self-congrats for having his M.O. pinned down pre-Mitchell report.
I just never liked his stuff.

Yeah, dude lucked the fuck out signing that 10 million/1 year contract like 4 or 5 days ago. I wonder if this had come out sooner if the Brewers would have dropped that much on a guy who was an injury threat before, but has to be topping the charts now.

Four points on the report and on the mainstream reaction to it, admitting that I haven't gotten through all of it yet:

First, for some players, the fact that one's name appears in the Mitchell Report is not definitive proof that this individual has actually done anything. A lot of the evidence is very speculative, especially considering the reputation of some of the sources of information. Although certainly, for others, the evidence is pretty clear.

Second, the idea that because someone doesn't appear in the report, that person is "clean," is nonsense. I'd imagine that the report itself probably couldn't hit on more than 1/4 of all the total users, just given how limited Mitchell was in his attempts to get information. Hell, many foreign players could've just walked into pharmacies in their home countries and picked up whatever drugs they wanted, leaving no tracks for Mitchell & Co. to investigate.

Now, no one on this board is saying that absence from the report vindicates any player's alleged use, but in the coming weeks, months, and years, people will draw a line in the sand between the "named" and the "not named." It's not a meaningful line, but simple-minded people in their blindingly binary world will attach a lot of meaning to it. And that will be sad and wrong.

Third, I just hope people keep in mind the fact that consistent performance enhancing drug use in baseball dates back to Ted Williams and fighter pilots coming back from WWII in the 1940s with amphetamines (and even back about 100 years, if you include isolated instances of wacky experimentation), and that illegal amphetamine use has been estimated at levels hovering around 80-90% in baseball since the 1960s (up until the last 2-3 years, after they've been banned). Those are illegal performance enhancing drugs, and they aid with focus and concentration -- elements more important to hitting a baseball than having a big chest and thick legs. There's simply nothing new or novel about players taking drugs to help them play baseball better. Thinking it began in the late 1980s with the Bash Brothers (as Mitchell seems to), or with the jump in offense from 1993-1995 (as the general public often likes to believe), simply isn't correct. And there's nothing any different about it now simply because the players have access to designer strength-training drugs. It's just a hot story these days, since it makes for sensational, scandalous headlines and because the prevailing journalistic culture is that everything is open game.

So let's not get on our high horse and assume that human nature has changed, and that somehow men whose names pop up in a .pdf file are more flawed and evil than those noble heroes whose cocks are in Bob Costas's mouth from the glory days. Oh, and as point 3.5, fuck Bob Costas in the ear.

And fourth, what did anyone expect? I'm shocked that anyone is surprised by any of the "revelations" in the report. Anyone with his ear near the ground has heard rumblings about these "big names." Again, not something I'm seeing on this board, but something that seems to afflict the public at large.

In sum, this whole thing is mostly an excuse for people at ESPN to scream at each other about in lieu of engaging in substantive discussions of the past and present of the game. It's interesting reading, insofar as it's an interesting window into some of the darker corners of sports. But in the whole scheme of things? Not all that important.

barndog wrote:Yea - it's clear that whoever generated that list wasn't doing it based on fact - my apologies for posting it without any attempt to verify.

You should apply for a job at Fox News Channel.

greg wrote:

DM wrote:

greg wrote:More Names!!

Kerry Wood

I searched through the whole pdf.doc and did not find this name in it. Where does this information come from?

Try again, and this time, look for his real name.

What the hell? Is "Kerry Wood" an operating alias? Please excuse my thickness.

Sincerely,
Guy who likes to use cntrl F.

DM wrote:What the hell? Is "Kerry Wood" an operating alias? Please excuse my thickness.

Sincerely,
Guy who likes to use cntrl F.

I think Greg was making a funny. You won't find Todd and Fern Yoshida anywhere in the report either.

i gotta pat you guys on the back because up to this point no one's gotten on their soap box to point fingers and preach.

my point is babe ruth would've used anything available to him to get an edge. athletes by nature are competitive.

there are probably ALOT more people who belong on this list. A-Rod never juiced? my ass. dude was a toothpick when he came up with seattle. i'm a little surprised by Pettite though with his good ol' boy christian image. but i'm not calling for his firing or anything.

I'm just worried for the children.

Foldyourarmsandsaynah wrote:Yeah, dude lucked the fuck out signing that 10 million/1 year contract like 4 or 5 days ago. I wonder if this had come out sooner if the Brewers would have dropped that much on a guy who was an injury threat before, but has to be topping the charts now.

What. The Fuck. Were the Brewers THINKING?

STF wrote:

Foldyourarmsandsaynah wrote:Yeah, dude lucked the fuck out signing that 10 million/1 year contract like 4 or 5 days ago. I wonder if this had come out sooner if the Brewers would have dropped that much on a guy who was an injury threat before, but has to be topping the charts now.

What. The Fuck. Were the Brewers THINKING?

that even a washed up fat roid canadian douche can get 20+ saves in the weak NL

ESPN.com has a profile on this Macnamee clown. Something distasteful about ex-college ball players who go on to careers as nutsack warmers for pros.

Even better, they report he falsified his credentials either on his own or with business partners many times, i.e. calling himself a Dr. and listing a PhD that he does NOT have from a school he did NOT attend.

He sooo deserves to go to prison and get ass raped just for that, but he'll skate by free for being a tattle tale.

STF wrote:

Foldyourarmsandsaynah wrote:Yeah, dude lucked the fuck out signing that 10 million/1 year contract like 4 or 5 days ago. I wonder if this had come out sooner if the Brewers would have dropped that much on a guy who was an injury threat before, but has to be topping the charts now.

What. The Fuck. Were the Brewers THINKING?

Yeah, when I heard the Red Sox had offered him arbitration in order to secure some draft picks if he signed elsewhere my first thought was, "oh god, he's not gonna be able to find a spot for the money he wants and he's gonna accept and then we're gonna have to sit through a whole season with him as a setup guy."

Even before last year I always thought he had the kind of make-up for a steroids disaster. The injuries and fluxuation of his ability to rebound from them freaked me out.

I'm kinda stoked we get a draft pick for him though.