I think having kids is a pretty selfish thing to do. As much as one might believe one's kids are a unique gift to society, the reality is that they're probably just Some More People.

I find having children hugely rewarding (I have one of each), but having them was in no sense an act of altruism. The distinction between my life and the lives of my children is so blurred (at least from a my (a parent's) perspective) that I don't honestly see dedication to the happiness of my kids as being discrete from dedication to my own happiness.

The wife and I have one child, a girl who will be 5 next month. It has been the most difficult and trying experience of my life, and at times made me question my ability to see it through. There have been moments when I felt that the best years of my life were gone and there was little to look forward to.
But, it has indeed been the best thing to ever happen to me. I wouldn't still be here if it hadn't, because it would certainly have consumed me. That sounds all dramatic, but that's just how heavy the whole experience has been for me. And now that I have grown from it and got my head around it better, it has affected my life all the more, for the positive.
My wife and I were in a band together, when we had the kid, we didn't have time for the band. It was impossible. Life became a matter of working to survive, not pursuing the leisure activities. And the longer we stayed away from those things, the easier it became to forget who we were. Until this past year, when we decided to get back the part of our lives we had been sacrificing. We started our band back up. It was difficult trying to make the time, I'll say that much. But we worked it out and got back to playing, and it means more to me now than it ever did in 15 odd years of playing. I look very forward to making the most of our time in the coming years.
Yeah, I don't hang out at every show that comes to town anymore. We don't wander home drunk after a gig and fuck right on the floor all the time. We don't take out of town shows on a moment's notice. So, indeed there are sacrifices. If I was too selfish to make these sacrifices, I wouldn't deserve the absolute joy that I receive from being father to my little girl.
But, to each his own, of course.

unsaved wrote:

busbus wrote:We decided to have one a few years back. He's the coolest little thing since Ampeg SVT amplifiers. He's almost two and I can't wait until he turns into my little helper or a drummer. I am going to need someone to jam with when I'm really old.

More parental fantasies. Odds are by the time he's a teenager, he won't want anything to do with you and what he see as your stupid, lame, old fart music. Oh, and probably everything else you value or believe in. So stop it already with your hopes for your own Chuck Dukowski family band and this little person you think you're going to mold to your liking.

My parents wanted me to love Jesus just like they did--sucks to be them!

I take you to task for your over generalizations and now you have it out for me? Nice one pussy.

Adam I wrote:I think having kids is a pretty selfish thing to do. As much as one might believe one's kids are a unique gift to society, the reality is that they're probably just Some More People.

There is nothing selfish about throwing your DNA in the ring to make a better future.

Look at that list unsaved posted again and find more than 5 things on it that are not selfish.

unsaved wrote:Odds are by the time he's a teenager, he won't want anything to do with you and what he see as your stupid, lame, old fart music. Oh, and probably everything else you value or believe in.

I can't wait for my kid to do this, personally.

unsaved wrote:

busbus wrote:We decided to have one a few years back. He's the coolest little thing since Ampeg SVT amplifiers. He's almost two and I can't wait until he turns into my little helper or a drummer. I am going to need someone to jam with when I'm really old.

More parental fantasies. Odds are by the time he's a teenager, he won't want anything to do with you and what he see as your stupid, lame, old fart music. Oh, and probably everything else you value or believe in. So stop it already with your hopes for your own Chuck Dukowski family band and this little person you think you're going to mold to your liking.

My parents wanted me to love Jesus just like they did--sucks to be them!

Hey, dick.

Quit being a dick, dick.

Tom wrote:

Adam I wrote:I think having kids is a pretty selfish thing to do. As much as one might believe one's kids are a unique gift to society, the reality is that they're probably just Some More People.

There is nothing selfish about throwing your DNA in the ring to make a better future.

Look at that list unsaved posted again and find more than 5 things on it that are not selfish.

Whether or not you are contributing to "a better future" is pure speculation. It's a crap shoot. Adding more people to an overpopulated world because you think that your offspring will somehow be superior is a somewhat arrogant approach. This too, is selfish.

In my 20's and early thirties I was adamant I didn't want kids. I've got them now and I love it.

That said, one of the things I've probably found most difficult about having kids is other parents. Lots of them drive me insane, either acting as as if they've discovered "the way" and their kids are unlike any other, or conversely, that having kids is devastating and incredibly difficult. It's hardly a unique or rare experience.

I think a lot of it is insecurity - some parents who work are desperate to prove they are still good parents, while those who stay at home are desperate to show that it's a full time job. It's probably just venting - it is bloody difficult at times, and for me certainly, there's far more at stake than anything else I've ever done. I just wish people would say so directly, rather than bombarding you with endless "advice"/war stories/smug "think this is bad? Just wait til they're teething/walking/getting stoned etc, then you'll struggle" type Shadenfreude. A lot of the advice has been invaluable, but usually from the people who you request it from - the ones who offer it at the drop of a hat often seem to just enjoy sounding off. I'm sure I'm just as bad but jeez....

If I had kids it would be for selfish reasons. The main reason would be to have something to occupy my later years because the thought of being alone in my last years scares the shit out of me. That's basically entirely selfish.

Actually, I'll adopt to make it a teeny-tiny bit less selfish. I don't want to prematurely Dawkins this thread but the fact that I find babies gross is most likely nature's way of telling me I shouldn't be in the gene pool.

tommydski wrote:If I had kids it would be for selfish reasons. The main reason would be to have something to occupy my later years because the thought of being alone in my last years scares the shit out of me. That's basically entirely selfish.

That's a cast iron way to have your family resent you when you reach really old age. Start planning now on how to make your last years burden free for your family. They'll appreciate you whilst you are still here and probably for a while after you are gone.