zom-zom wrote:

Tom wrote:
There is nothing selfish about throwing your DNA in the ring to make a better future.

Look at that list unsaved posted again and find more than 5 things on it that are not selfish.

Whether or not you are contributing to "a better future" is pure speculation. It's a crap shoot. Adding more people to an overpopulated world because you think that your offspring will somehow be superior is a somewhat arrogant approach. This too, is selfish.

Sure it's speculation- hence "throwing your DNA in the ring." But if your an intelligent person with means to support a kid, the odds are your kid is going to turn out pretty well. You have the unique opportunity to instill your values a child.

Yeah, overpopulation is an issue, but the fact is that if you want humans to continue to exist (and maybe you don't), we're going to need more of them. I'd rather at least some of them come from people who give a shit about shit that shit needs to be given about than all of them from people who don't give a shit about nothing.

Tom wrote:This list was clearly written by someone who obsesses over the fact that they can't have kids for some reason.
If they really didn't give a shit, they wouldn't know about phrases like
"helicopter kids"
"diaper blowout"
"ferberize"

Actually, I believe it was written by the woman who runs the Happily Childfree website--it's not really a stretch to know some inside terms used by parents as one can hear them often in the many child-centered conversations in the workplace, at family functions and whatnot.

Tom wrote:

Yeah, overpopulation is an issue

Not in Scotland it's not.

Dudley wrote:That said, one of the things I've probably found most difficult about having kids is other parents. Lots of them drive me insane...

Kind of unrelated, but some friends of mine have a five year old. The parents of a kid in her class had a Guy Faulks themed party for her birthday. She's 5 and this was in South Carolina.
W T F.

Tom wrote:

Dudley wrote:That said, one of the things I've probably found most difficult about having kids is other parents. Lots of them drive me insane...

Kind of unrelated, but some friends of mine have a five year old. The parents of a kid in her class had a Guy Faulks themed party for her birthday. She's 5 and this was in South Carolina.
W T F.

Methinks this may have something to do with that "V for Vendetta" movie, or possibly with the whole Ron Paul phenomenon.

Tom wrote:Sure it's speculation- hence "throwing your DNA in the ring." But if your an intelligent person with means to support a kid, the odds are your kid is going to turn out pretty well. You have the unique opportunity to instill your values a child.

Yeah, overpopulation is an issue, but the fact is that if you want humans to continue to exist (and maybe you don't), we're going to need more of them. I'd rather at least some of them come from people who give a shit about shit that shit needs to be given about than all of them from people who don't give a shit about nothing.

You can instill all you like, and in the case of my brother and myself, the instilling worked great. We are both very nice, helpful, considerate and good people. Not to toot my own horn, but we are.

I do know many parents that in spite of their instillment and great parenting, have turned out bad people, through no fault of their own. You just can't say that being the best parent ever is going to be a fool-proof method of making a wonderful adult human.

And vice-versa, I have friends whose parents were criminally bad people and in spite of their horrific upbringings have turned out to be wonderful adult humans.

Josef K wrote:

tommydski wrote:If I had kids it would be for selfish reasons. The main reason would be to have something to occupy my later years because the thought of being alone in my last years scares the shit out of me. That's basically entirely selfish.

That's a cast iron way to have your family resent you when you reach really old age. Start planning now on how to make your last years burden free for your family. They'll appreciate you whilst you are still here and probably for a while after you are gone.

Depends how late you are planning to have kids (or in my case, adopt). Maybe I won't want kids until I'm about forty. They'd still be dependent on me for a long while. After that, seeing them once or twice a year would be fine by me. Better than nowt.

busbus wrote:I take you to task for your over generalizations and now you have it out for me? Nice one pussy.

I only have it out for people who say that I'm a fucking idiot fuckbag pussy and that I should shut my fucking pie hole. I'm sensitive, ya know.

I've never been inclined to have kids, and can say with relative certainty that I never will. For as long as I've been able to sensibly consider the possibilty (five minutes) I've known that it was a bad idea. I don't think I'd be a bad parent by any stretch of the imagination, I just think that I lack that fundamental dedication and responsibility required to be a good parent. I think the worst thing I could inflict on any potential offspring would be unfettered mediocrity. The world can live without wee RIIIs.
I'll tell you what else the world can do without - the smug self-satisfaction other people like me sometimes display. Not wanting to have kids doesn't make me a smarty pants.

I was a child before I had a child - bankruptcy, divorce, infidelity, etc. When I was 34 my wife and I decided to start a family (something that had not been an option with my ex-wife). My son was born with a serious birth defect, since corrected by surgery but something that will require a lifetime of vigilance.

I can understand how the prospect of children, let alone the added heartache, sacrifice and stress of a child with special needs, can be daunting. However, I can firmly state that my son has changed my life for the good in every way possible. Not even having a career that exposes me to daily death and grief (and which predated fatherhood by several years) did that.

When I was 8 years old I loved to play with my cars in the sandbox. When I was 17 I liked to drive fast and stay out all night. When I was 25 I used my credit cards like someone else was paying the bills.

I don't play in the sandbox anymore, I drive the speed limit, and live on a budget. I'm as close to retirement age now as I am to my high school graduation. I don't miss too many of the luxuries I have given up, and those I do miss don't even come close to tainting the joy my son gives me every day.